Last week eBay published a press release announcing that all coin replicas and copies will no longer be able to be sold on eBay after February 20, 2012. eBay is currently working with The PNG (Professional Numismatists Guild), a nonprofit organization comprised of the country's top rare coin dealers, to further refine its standards to ensure that all coin collectors have confidence in their eBay experience. According to the press release:
Effective Feb. 20, the current eBay Coins policy will be updated to remove replica coin listings and relistings from eBay.com. eBay defines replica coins as a copy or reproduction of an actual coin, including U.S., foreign and other historic coins. This update better reflects standards across the coin industry, and helps ensure compliance with applicable laws that require replica coins to be permanently marked with the word, "copy."
Comments
I’ve had many problems with fraud on eBay and the only response that I have gotten is that eBay has stated that they are in receipt of the complaint and can’t comment. I have seen the offenders continue to sell coins, paper money and other items that were misrepresented. I have had some sellers refuse to complete transactions and eBay did nothing. The current announcement is barely a step in the right direction.
Two years ago I found more than one seller getting hundreds of dollars for a promotional item given away free by a currency grading service. The service had placed facsimiles in plastic and the result looked a lot like the real thing, enough so that many people purchased them on eBay for ridiculous amounts.
Another seller offered US mint test coins that were described as trial coins considered for production by the mint, yet they were really just toys. eBay did nothing about this during the year that I complained about the misleading description. The item was listed in the eBay category for US coins.
1922 No D coins are another frequent problem, as are cleaned coins, modified coins, etc. For many of us that have to submit a coin to PCGS or NGC in order to learn if it has problems, by the time we get the coins back eBay is unwilling to take action on our behalf. And if you use their preferred time payment option you lose the ability to cancel the transaction as you would if you used your credit card.
eBay’s tagline should be: Caveat Emptor
I am a coin collector, but I also do Christian slight of hand and other magic as Bible illustrations.
I would rather not use real (Collectable coins) and have ofter sought out copies and other wise fake coins for this purpose, on Ebay and so far I am very pleased. As long as these fakes are properly labeled as such in the listing, I say who cares?
At 60 years old I am responsible for my dealing with others, and do not want ebay becoming any more restrictive. I am also a 100 % Service Connected Disabled Veteran, having served in Viet Nam, Desert Shield/Storm, Bosnia, and other duties.
I also collect fire arms, and Ebay a few years back decided to not allow any firearms listings. Even thought it is not illegal to buy and sell them.
Ebay is like the Federal government wanting to control more and more of our personal lives and dialings, and I resent both.
And how is this going to stop people from listing fakes as genuine coins?
How, I wonder, are they going to deal with restrikes (differentiating between official and unofficial restrikes) and issues (such as early Haitian) that has a lot of contemporary countefeits which are recognized as collectible in there own right?
Many people say ebay doesn’t do enough to stop fakes, etc, but man, If no one tried to deceive in the 1st place, there’d be no issue. Humans.
Anyway, as far as buying/saving in general $ and eBay goes:
If you send the seller a question about an item, find another of their listings, and send the question from that item page, rather than from the one that you actually want. This will add a little bit of work for the seller, if they want to add the question/answer to the item description page that you are actually interested in.
If you see an item that you want listed in auction format, send the seller a message asking if they will accept $x to end the auction early and sell the item to you. May be telling them that they would not have to wait as long to get their money (they would probably know that, but it still might help). If that does not work, use a sniping service such as Bidball.com to bid for you. It’ll bid in the last few seconds, helping you to save money and avoid shill bidding.
Use a site like Ebuyersedge.com to set up saved searches. You’d get an e-mail whenever a match is listed. Especially good for “Buy It Now”s priced right.
If the item that you are looking for is difficult to spell, try a misspelling search site like Typojoe.com to hopefully find some deals with items that have main keywords misspelled in the title. Other interested buyers might never see them. Then, if the item is listed an auction format, after a few days of no bids (hopefully anyway) send the seller and offer to end the auction early and sell the item to you. They may worry that no one is interested, and take whatever they can get.
Chappy,
How does your Christ can, veteran status, disability, gun collector, etc. play into this issue. We’re talking about a private company who sets their own policy. Stop taking your government check and start your online auction. Go to Lowes or Home Depot, they give 10% off to veterans. BTW – I fit into 4 out of 5 named catagories.
How does this prevent fraud? There is a market for coin copies and there are laws on the books requiring these copies to be marked properly. To not allow the sale of “copies” only prevents those who market their item as a copy from listing it. It does not prevent the individual who is marketing their copy as the real item from listing and selling to the unwary buyer. The only individuals protected by these actions are those who do not read the complete description prior to bidding.
And Chappy, I think you are more right than some are giving you credit for when comparing Ebay to the government. But in my opinion the likeness is in the reactions to the complaint; creating policies/laws that only protect the fool from the law abiding and doing nothing to stop the actual cons, criminals or fraudsters.
Moving in the right direction. Coin collecting is fun and shouldnt be allowed to be degraded by sellers wanting to make a quick buck by deceiving others.
What a phony measure this is. The real problem is uncirculated coins that are severely over graded or misdescribed. Every coin is BU (brilliant uncirculated). Somehow the brilliance is never there. Photos are doctored. Some sellers won’t accept returns. But even when dealing with those who do, it still costs return postage. There is no doubt in my mind that sellers send out anything knowing that a significant number of people just won’t hassle with a return. If Ebay were serious about coin scams, they would make the seller state a legitimate grade for the coin (MS-xx) or at least a range since grading is so subjective. Choice BU, Select BU. and Near Gem BU mean nothing and never will. Sellers are getting away with grand larceny and Ebay knows it and supports it.
I agree, that there are some that really try to take advantage any way they can.
I just wonder how this is going to effect those selling silver rounds. Often silver rounds are minted after US patterned coins. I have a couple of tubes of silver rounds that were purchased way before the price of silver sky rocketed.
Probably should have sold them at or near the top, but I kind of like having some gold and silver bullion in case of disaster.
Pretty much anyone with any coin knowledge would know that winged liberty (mercury) dimes or Peace Dollars weren’t minted in one ounce .999 fine silver, but nowhere on any of the coins does it actually say replica, to the best of my knowledge.
I did not vote in the survay, nothing there fit for the reason i never used ebay for anything. They stink as an auction house. If i’m correct by what chappy said about trying to control things like the gov’t does is how badly e-bay is in protecting either buyer or seller for that matter. There were many complaints against pay pal confiscating seller accounts without reason or warning. Held millions of sellers dollars, none could get the money back, nor an explination as to what rule’s were violated in order for their accounts to be seized. In all that while, ebay did nothing to protect their patrons. That is a flagrant disregard of the law. When all this took place years ago ebay did nothing. As of today i don’t know if this still goes on, or if anything was ever done about it since then. There are other auction houses like ebay around that sell items and at least offer a little better protection against fraud. The only thing ebay has is a way for regular people to sell there too.
Fast forward to today. I emailed an ebay seller to sell some items for me at their drop off store here at home. There is a 1,000 dollar minimum to have the items picked up from my home. I asked what if i don’t know the value of my items. Items can be bundled to equall a thousand dollars for the pick up at home. I never got an answer. So, forget ebay. I’ll find other outlets.
Chappy, my curiousity got the better of me. I was just wondering when you became a 100% disabled.
coiny
The problem is not with copied coins that you are told are copies. The problem is with the unknown copies. Even the the graded coins could be fakes. I have bought many coins on eBay and only had a few with problems. If eBay allowed for additional time so a coin could be sent to a knowned grader; then if the coin was identified as a fake, penalize the seller. The trouble would be how could you be sure that the coin sent to the grader was the one sold.
Perhaps eBay could arrange with one of the coin graders for direct grading (Seller would ship the coin to the grader and the grader would ship it to the buyer. Of course the buyer would have to pay extra for the service.).
Too little, too late. The damage has already been done, mainly by Chinese counterfeiters who sell marked copies, and their willingness to sell them, unmarked as copies, just by asking them to do so. The market has already been flooded with so many of these fakes, many of them so good that they fool experts, that it will take years, if ever, for this problem to diminish. I have purchased numerous fakes from U.S. sellers with high feedback ratings. They claimed that they didn’t know the coins were counterfeit, and I always got my money back, but the fact remains. If a dealer has lost a significant amount of money by purchasing a counterfeit, and he/she is the least bit unscrupulous, then they will put said fake back onto the market, hoping to regain some of what they lost in the first place. That is the sad reality of the matter. Ebay truly only cares about the profits, part of which come from having a good reputation in the marketplace. That is why they have changed this policy, not to protect the collector. Only for the profits.
This does NOTHING to stop fakes.
All it does is harm those who actually want to collect copy coins. Reproductions are low cost ways to collect coin “art”. I will simply do business with sellers of reproductions in sites other than ebay.
Wow, E-Bay must be serious about cleaning house. Even though i never bought a thing off E-Bay, i signed up around 03, also had a PayPal account. I got an email yesterday from E-Bay asking me if i want to reregister with them since it’s been so long since i’ve signed into my account. I have 30 days to respond or they will close my account. They might as well. Untill i grow any faith in them, i won’t be buying from any E-Bay sellers anytime soon.
And i don’t mean to be knocking the good people selling there. I’m sure there are mor good than bad.
My problem is with E-Bay itself.
I may still try to sell some stuff there. I don’t know yet. I know people with E-Bay accounts that can sell for me.
coiny