The U.S. Mint has issued two statements this morning regarding the recent issues on its Web site. I'm going to publish both statements in their entirety because I know everyone will want to read them for themselves. The first statement seems to be a lot of blather that surrounds one very important point, which I have highlighted in bold. (Even though these statements are dated Feb. 19, they were released the morning of Feb. 20. The bold text does not appear in the original version sent by the Mint.)
Product Shipping
February 19, 2009
With the implementation of the United States Mint’s new contractor-operated fulfillment center and changes to shipping methods for our numismatic products, all shipments are now trackable.
Standard shipping is sent via FedEx Smart Post Presort (ground), which uses the United States Postal Service (USPS) for final delivery. All orders under standard shipping can be tracked through the FedEx Web site.
Expedited shipping (orders valued at more than $300 or by customer request) is now delivered by UPS (Air and International). All orders under expedited shipping can be tracked through the UPS Web site.
APO, FPO, and P.O. Box addresses are serviced by USPS Priority Mail. All orders shipped by Priority Mail can be tracked through the USPS Web site.
All packages will be insured for their full value.
When the United States Mint changed over to a new fulfillment contractor in January 2009, it dropped the signature requirement for most orders. Based on feedback from our customers, the United States Mint is preparing to return to a signature confirmation process for all orders of $300 or more and for all orders containing precious metal products. The United States Mint will announce the details of the reinstatement of this process by February 25, 2009.
Some shipping carriers do not immediately update their Web sites with the newest tracking information. It may take from six hours to several days for a United States Mint customer’s tracking information to be displayed on these sites. The United States Mint is exploring a way to upload this information to the carrier daily so customers have more timely access to their tracking information.
NOTE: The United States Mint has temporarily disabled its “Track My Order” feature on www.usmint.gov/catalog as it was referencing the old shipping methods. This feature will be restored in the next few days. However, customers can go directly to the carriers’ Web sites (FedEx, UPS, and USPS) to track their orders. Please refer to your order confirmation notice for the tracking number.
So, buried in all this drivel is a very interesting admission on the part of the Mint: The fact that they admitted, without further explanation, dropping the signature requirement for "most orders." I can't help but wonder what the criteria is for qualifying for signature; it certainly isn't monetary value, with orders in excess of $350k being dumped on people's doorsteps. But I digress...
What is alarming about this statement is the fact that the Mint seemingly intentionally did away with the security of requiring people to sign for their insured shipments! I find it really hard to believe that anybody would insure shipments of gold and silver coins without requiring some kind of oversight from the shippers! Was the Mint "self-insuring?" (Meaning that they would just eat the losses when they occurred?) None of this makes sense to anybody who thinks about it for more than 45 seconds.
Although this is pure speculation, I think what happened was someone at the Mint screwed up and didn't prepare the fulfillment contract properly. Whether it was a typist who goofed and her boss didn't bother proofreading, or whether it was incompetence in the division that negotiates the fulfillment contracts, somebody dropped the ball here and the Mint doesn't want to admit it. I mean, think about it! Who in their right mind would intentionally create a system that ships thousands of dollars worth of solid gold coins, and not require any accountability on the part of the delivery chain? Without getting a signature from the end recipient, you could virtually never prove whether losses occurred because the UPS driver or postman pocketed the gold rather than delivering it, or the recipient decided to claim he never received it so he could steal it himself. It just boggles the mind that anybody would intentionally implement such a system! Thus my assertion that this has to have been a mistake on someone's part, and that the Mint has decided to try to cover it up.
When you read the Mint's statement, it doesn't deny this possibility. The words say, "When the United States Mint changed over to a new fulfillment contractor in January 2009, it dropped the signature requirement for most orders." So true. But intentional? I don't think so!
A real good question to ask might be why the Mint's fulfillment contractor, Pitney-Bowes Government Solutions, didn't catch this dangerous lapse and insist, for their own protection, that it be fixed. It's almost as if neither party bothered to read the contract closely.
Just for the sake of discussion, though, let's assume that the Mint really did intend for this bizarre provision to be in the contract. What possible benefit would be there be for the Mint? Getting signature confirmation costs money, so maybe this was a money-saving effort! Maybe the Mint thought that the additional losses from theft and dishonesty would still cost them less than the small extra charge per order that the shippers charge to snag that sig. These charges typically run the Mint less than 0.5% (one half of one percent) of the order value (based on the fact that they kick in at the $300 order level and cost less than $2, sometimes little more than $1.)
The sad thing about all this is that we have to speculate at all. If the Mint would be more forthcoming and direct, and less obstructive and secretive, the speculation would end because the truth would be out there for all to see. Instead we get absurd claims that the Mint created this order delivery security fiasco on purpose for some reason. IF this is true, the incompetency at the Mint is far worse than even the biggest skeptics claim.
The Second Statement From the U.S. Mint
All the smoke and mirrors about why they took the order tracking service offline is a distraction from the second issue - that of the Mint's Web site security breach. Here's the statement the Mint issued about that:
Customer Orders
February 19, 2009
The United States Mint is aware of a recent report, alleging that customer orders may have been cancelled without their authorization. Because the United States Mint is committed to respecting and protecting our customers' transactions on our catalog website, we take this report seriously and have taken steps to look into the matter. Once we have ascertained the facts, have determined the nature of this alleged activity, and have decided upon any corrective action, if needed, we will be able to provide you with an update. The functionality offered on our website through “Track My Order,” where the alleged activity may have occurred, is currently unavailable due to other maintenance issues. The “Track My Order” functionality will not be available until all potential issues have been addressed.
This statement is basically a load of crap. Here's why: If the Mint's intention in taking down the tracking system was, as they say, to update the order-tracking options available from their shippers, then why take it off-line without notice and for a long period of time? If all they needed to do was an update, why not leave the service functioning for the benefit of their customers and then when the update is ready, swap out the old code and put in the new. It's done all the time on Web sites all over the net with nary a customer's notice.
What really happened was that on Feb. 10, the Mint was formally notified in writing of the security breach, and by the morning of the 12th, the order tracking feature was suddenly non-functional. There was no error message nor any orderly process involved. Someone just suddenly yanked it from the Web, leaving a page that never loaded because the server kept trying to pull up a system that was disconnected at the other end. On about the 16th, the Mint finally fixed the non-loading page and put a terse explanation it its place, "This feature is temporarily unavailable. Please call 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468) if you would like to track an order. We apologize for this inconvenience."
The Mint's customer information security problems do not end with the order tracking feature on their Web site. After my own startling discovery that the Mint's customer service reps would read personal data from my file to me with nothing more than an order number and a first name, I began experimenting to see whether it was just this one poorly-trained rep at fault, or the entire system. I believe it's the entire system, because I was able to get reps to read all sorts of personal order details based on the order numbers alone.
At one point, I asked a rep if she knew why the Mint's order tracking system on the Web was down, and she said, "yes, I do know, but I can't tell you why because it's confidential information!" Great customer service, huh?
Even though the Mint managed to come up with two marginally informative statements this morning, we still do not have any answers about why customers who ordered the Ultra-High Relief coin got multiple and conflicting emails about their shipping dates. Since I've been asking about that since late January and still don't have an answer despite nearly daily promises that they would have it the next morning, I'm wondering what the big secret mess is behind that! If the Mint thinks that this is just going to go away if they procrastinate long enough, they're wrong.
You know, it honestly pains me to have to write scathing coverage like this about our beloved Mint. I am about as pro-Mint as you can get! I love the coins they make, I am proud when American coins win international awards like COTY, and I generally try to portray our Mint in as favorable a light as possible. But everyone has a B.S. quota, and when that quota fills up, like most people, I get exasperated. I really wish the Mint would empower its Public Affairs office to be able to react and respond more quickly to public inquiries, without so much overhead and bureaucracy. For example, the first statement above was ready on Tuesday, but we didn't get it until Friday because it had to be vetted and approved by others. And I'm still waiting for information on other matters.
What do you think about the Mint's latest statements? Share your thoughts in the Comments below, because the Mint does read the views you share, even if nothing ever seems to come of it... ;)
Comments
Thanks so much, Ms. Headley, for pursuing this matter so diligently. I appreciate your efforts.
Its a sad thing to read, just bums me out as i too have been pro mint. My last email said shipping date of feb 21st so i will just wait and see, calling the number is no help as it just says your order is being processed, and i like others have received all the last shipments left on front porch including a 1000 in the pres dollars, i just firgured since they were not charging for shipping that was the way it was, the ultra high relief, i just don’t get how some people claim to have gotten this, and so many others are still waiting with no word. thks for the articles not much choice but to wait and see : }
Susan,
I think this is another example of the culture now operating at the retail end of the Mint. They are not doing a good job with customer service, delivery timeliness, or security and they do not want the negative exposure.
It seems to me that we need change “at the top” here to resolve these issues. Ebusiness is not rocket science. Customers have a right to reasonable delivery times and transparant transactions.
Will you keep up the pressure to further these ends?
It’s amazing that we have to get the press releases here rather than on the Mint’s website.
As of 3:30 PM Eastern Time, none of this has been posted at http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/
Thank you Susan for providing this info. I shared your blog with a PBGS rep when I called today to check on my UHRDE order. She will now be informed thanks to you.
They still haven’t told us when they are going to start shipping the rest of the early orders for the UHRDE. Any guesses as to when they might?
I still have no access to my past orders page
Susan, to defend one point, the Mint could have used a third-party insurer who didn’t require signature for delivery. They still exist, although how is anybody’s guess.
Now on to the scathing part. The past two years, Moy has attended coin shows and spoken to the need for the Mint to be more customer-friendly and responsive. The two statements prove that to be a LIE.
I can absolutely understand the need to take a few extra days to get the statements worded right. But I can’t understand the need to avoid speaking to the REAL issues.
Of course, the lack of UHR data is no shock either. I’m already hearing that Lincoln commems are all about to go into extended backorder status too. And of course, today is the day that a bunch of UHR’s were supposed to ship in theory.
I spoke to a PBGS rep today 2:30pm EST. She told me that my order (placed 1/22 at 1pm) was processing. I asked if it would be sent UPS (since I paid the extra $15 thinking it would require a signature). She said yes but it would not require a signature and recommended I track it to keep an eye out for when it would reach my doorstep.
As a CSR, she should have known about the planned policy change of a required signature. I am still concerned if my coin will require a signature for delivery.
One of the problems with the US Mint is that it’s basically a monopoly, and worse yet it’s a government monopoly. I’m not saying there’s a better way in this situation. I think allowing private coin production would create a nightmare. But in the private sector, if your customer service is lacking you’ll lose a percentage of your business to your competitors. I try to patronize the good ole US of A when I can but I expect some respect for my patronage. Lately I find myself visiting the sites for the Royal Mint and the Royal Canadian Mint. I’ve even placed an order. Will others be doing the same?
One thing we do have to keep in mind is that the Mint’s primary purpose is not to satisfy the desires of coin collectors but rather to supply the US monetary system with the necessary coins for commerce. I guess we should be happy that they do produce the numismatic products that they do. (Albeit they do make a profit from these numismatic products). I’m not trying to let them off the hook for this fiasco. It’s absurd. Just trying to keep it all in perspective though.
With specific regards to the signature blunder, I think that’s a bigger mess than most realize. How many hundreds of thousands of packages does the Mint ship each year with a value of $300+? Keep in mind, in totality they ship over 3 million packages a year. At between $1-$2 per package for the signatures, well… that .5% can add up to a big number and no one wants to eat it.
My Lincoln commems are in transit. If they’re going into backorder then I got lucky.
As (5) Frank says- “I still have no access to my past orders page”. I am having that problem too. You have to sign in with a user # & password, so why have they closed down access to that page? I just received an e-mail on 2/17/09 that the 2008 50 STATE QUARTERS GREETING I ordered on 10/27/08 is being shipped. How is that for timely shipping? lol
The Moy Mint has long been full of non-answers, processing fubars and absolute disinterest in serving their collector “Joes” whose only expectation was purchasing coins, tracking them and receiving them in a prompt/consistent fashion.
Instead, we got poor customer service in all these areas with misleading pre-sale hype and post-sale incompetence.
I must say I am pessimistic about a turn-around in the “mint’s problems” many of your readers and I have had for quite some time. I firmly believe the Mint has a very deeply re-inforced attitude of indifference evidenced by their long standing refusal to show small-time collectors common courtesy and admit/correct mistakes… I won’t even get into the “common sense” issue…
A very tough thing to cope with is the fact that their “take it or leave it” treatment of us is consistent with their apparent belief that they are “the only game in town”.
Also, the “mud suckin’ serf” side of me can’t help but think the “whales” of the Mint’s customers get most of the attention.
Thank you Susan. You have credibility and integrity, rare qualities in many places…
I need another beer.
My Lincolns are in transit too, but the charge on my CC for the UHRDE came and went and has not come back yet. I am not sure why the mint even bothered to waste my money concocting that drivel. Did they really think we would fall for those explanations? I have an IQ of 152 for the love of Pete! I actually do know my anatomy from my geology (think about it). None of that verbal diarrhea does anything to explain why credit cards were charged and products were never shipped, then charges dropped. Delivery dates changed this way and that. Their explanations are outright lies and those of us who have been watching things closely know it. Why is it so important for them to avoid admitting their mistakes? Do they think we will loose faith if we perceive them as less than perfect? Will some divine light stop shining if they proclaim earthly fallibility? Mr. Moy, tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth! Stop pleading the 5th, stop imagining that you are the Minty Pontiff. The notion that any amount of insurance makes up for the complete lack of delivery confirmation is absurd. No entity outside the government would take on that insurance risk. Their claim that some new sort of delivery system is now in place that allows tracking of the low dollar orders is also bovine excrement. That change is a direct result of the acquisition of DHL by FedEx, it just happened. No one has a right to take credit for it. It is just the way FedEx does business. What this is all about is money. Someone thought that they were saving money by not spending for the signature requirement. Whether that was someone at the mint or the fulfillment contractor is not really important. What is important is that they both agreed to do it before anyone pointed out that the money saved would be lost back once word got around that they decided that they did not want to know that product was being delivered to the intended parties. Did they sit down had tell themselves that as long as they keep quiet about the no signature thing that no one will find out and they won’t loose any money to fraud or theft? ARRRGH!
Just wanted to say got email saying they have shipped and charge my account for the lincoln proof silver dollar, only ordered one but it amazes me that beat out my uhr bummer wonder how many others got a shipping notice?
Blame the Mint AND blame Pitney-Bowes Government “Solutions”
Look at their 2008 annual report:
(http://www.usmint.gov/downloads/about/annual_report/2008AnnualReport.pdf)
Unfortunately, read this in the report:
“Our mandate for numismatic coin sales is not to maximize profit but to recover costs and keep prices as low as practicable so that Americans can afford them. To avoid
having the taxpayers subsidize the cost of numismatic products, we manage to a 15 percent margin as a hedge against unforeseen risk. In FY 2008, our numismatic net income was about $82 million. In the coming year, we will be exploring ways to keep the price of numismatic products as close to actual cost as practicable, while managing to a reduced margin or employing different means as a hedge against risk.”
Hi Folks,
Just an update on the UHRDE “fiasco”. Spoke with the US Mint customer rep yesterday 2/19 to ask why the CC charges were made and removed. According to her, to verify if there was sufficient funds to purchase the coin. The same BS that has been going on this past month. To make things worse, the rep confirmed shipping for today 2/20. Needless to say that I am not holding my breath at this end. Did receive shipping notice for the Lincoln proofs today. We will see!!!
If you got a ship notice for your Lincoln dollars and it has two numbers after Tracking ID, you should be able to enter the second number (22 digits) into the Fedex.com tracking app and follow your package to the USPS hub that serves you (after that the same number should work at USPS.com but won’t get updated much). If you paid extra shipping, it should be going UPS and the tracking number should start something like 1Z…
I have ordered and received both the Presidential Proof Dollars and the Lincoln coins.
So far no e-mail stating UHR has shipped and only 4 hours left for the 20th.
With all the well documented Mint fumblings associated with the shipment of the 2009 UHRDEs, I wonder what would be required to have the US Treasury Dept Inspector General initiate an investigation of:
(1) Specifcally, how did the documented 1-2 UHRDEs get shipped in early Feb09 to individuals who’s orders #s were not first in queue (actually far from the earliest order #s)? What happened to the US Mint’s FIFO order processing?
(2) As UHRDEs are purportedly being shipped today/this weekend: in what order # sequence are they being processed/shipped? Again, is FIFO order processing being adhered to (my sense: No!)
I cannot surppress my feelings of some “dirty dealings” being involved in what has occurred to-date (and may yet be continuing today).
Yes, thanks for your good work in trying to get through the US Mint “fog”. The toll free number has not worked either the last few days, even the computer just hangs up on me! Last shipping statement on UHR I got was to ship book and ooin on Feb 20, they bore the “in stock and reserved” label for the last two weeks. When I did get an operator a week or two ago and asked them if they are in stock what is the big deal about shipping them, she gave no sane response.
I guess we should all get ready as these goverment folks are all related to the ones that will ship most of our $800,000,000,000 out to all the favorite social programs that have not been funded in the last 8 years in freshly printed greenbacks by the pallet load!
I have a feeling they will be on time with those
Dear JRC50,
I have had the same frustration with the UHRC3 that has been experienced by most other writers. However, I do not believe that government officials “down the food chain” are the culprits.
My order was posted 13 minutes after the coin went on sale and ever since then I have tried to speed the process. This has accomplished nothing. As I understand it, Moy had “outsourced” marketing and shipping to private enterprise outfits like Pitney Bose. This was the Bush tactic to “reduce” the size of government and coincidentally to reward politically “correct” businesses! I got this information from a real Mint bureaucrat who lives near me in a DC suburb.
Large government programs are often suspected of waste and inefficiency, but it seems that inefficient and insensitive private enterprise has a hand in this “golden kerfuffle”. Look to the shipper and the bureaucrats who are supposed to be their supervisors.
The ghost of a discredited policy may be at work here.
So, could someone tell me if the mint has shipped 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin (UH1) to anyone, at all?
Susan,
Thanks for the investigative updates. Hold them accountable. The government through the U.S. Mint is working as we expect it always does, poorly. There should be no surprises here. Incompetance and lame excuses are rampant through our society and affect us all.
I’m being patient for my “ULTRA”, because good things come to those who wait. Let’s all stay positive with hopes for sucessful deliveries.
If the Mint was more truthful and forthcoming with information then the public would be more understanding and forgiving.
Susan,
Thanks for all you do to keep us posted.
It’s really a simple answer. The signature requirement was not in the contract bid proposal request, so PBGS didn’t price it into their bid. They are now waiting for an expensive change order to be signed, and until it is they won’t ship high ticket items. That is sadly the way it works.
JJ-
Yes a few UHRDE’s did get shipped out before the problem was caught. If you want to look at one there are pictures posted at Coin Network.
http://www.coinnetwork.com/forum/topics/the-uhr-package-has-arrived
Lureuin,
Your report about PBGS is unbelievable! Do you mean to tell us that we have all been the victims of “contract confusion” between the Mint & PBGS? Further, our orders are being held hostage by PBGS until they get their “pound of flesh”? Where did you get this information?
This sounds like Pentagon weapons contracts. First the low bidder gets a contract. Then the company decides it needs more money and holds up production until more tax dollars are provided. Suddenly, the low bid gets much larger at taxpayers expense. Check out the history of the Bradly Fighting Vehicle as just one example of this.
Steve – You seem to be blaming PBGS for this mishap. I think with all the chatter that’s been going around the past few days, many would speculate that it’s the Mint that dropped the ball. I would presume that PBGS is honoring the contract they negotiated with the Mint – signature requirements not being specified in the contract.
IF that is the case I can’t blame PBGS for holding up the deliveries if the Mint is now requiring the signatures without bumping up the contracted price. (Believe me, I want my UHR). With profit margins being so slim these days, efficiencies are critical to survival. I’m sure companies like UPS us ABC models (Activity Based Costing) and they know just how costly it is for them to obtain those customer signatures.
Maybe it is PBGS’ fault but I presume the Mint would be the one eating any losses for coins “lost in transit”. If so wouldn’t it be on their shoulders to make sure the signature clause was built into the contract?
It almost seems like there has to be more to the story. Could they really overlook such a huge component as that? Has our government really become that incompetent? I “hope” we’re missing something. Either way I would hope someone would fess up instead of cover up. I think most of us would respect them more for going that route.
Thank you Susan for providing this info! It is really a bummer
Is the US mint disfunctional? Absolutely. However, so is the post office, my credit card company, tv provider, car dealer service department, health clinic, school system, etc. They are all incompetent. We are at least three generations into a nation of non-performers. The mint seems to be somewhat worse because of their hiring and firing practices or lack thereof. They are also political which means they will violate the first in-first out policy with the slightest pressure. But why the frenzy? This is an overpriced product that will probably never significantly increase in value. This looks like another PT Cruiser craze to me, and how did that end? You might get lucky and never get this coin.
TM,
It would seem from the few who have recieved the long sought UHRC that the wait has been worth the aggravation. They & Susan say it is a wonderful work of art. That is the reason that most of us want the coin.
However, you may be right about the future appreciation of this piece. Gold is doing very well, but who can predict the future?
As to the mint/PBGS handeling of shipping and delivery I have little sympathy. Most of us would gladly pay the few extra dollars necessary to get signature confirmation on the order. Instead we are confronted with secrecy and misinformation that would have done Nixon proud. Delay for the sake of delay!
What can be expected from one of “W’s” White House appointments.
Dave,
Moy and his merry crew of political appointees are ultimately responsible. PBGS is just their spawn in incompetance here.
My point was that this mess has less to do with hard working mint professionals than it does with the political/business complex and culture created by “W” and his cronies!
If you doubt that this is so just read a little about Nixon and Watergate. Notice how customer service (private) responds to any inquiries. Like Nixon, Moy has no desire to level with the public or openly explain the current glitches.
He and his cronies may indeed have something to hide! Although I cannot imagine what it would be?
“tm”:
So wait…
A purported (by you) societal epidemic of incompetence is an excuse for the Mint, a government entity, to be totally irresponsible towards its customers, as well as negligent in its legal obligations? It’s okay because “everyone else is doing it?”
I’m intrigued by the examples you provide. Post office and school system are either government entities or quasi-government entities, as is in all likelihood the “health clinic” you mention. TV “provider” (um, you mean the cable company?) is a public utility. That leaves the service department (take your car elsewhere) and the credit card company (STOP USING CREDIT – debt is what drove the greatest country in the world into the mess we’re in now).
We’re talking about the failure of BUREAUCRATS and POLITICIANS here. These are the people who work for US, remember? They need to be reminded of this.
As for: “This is an overpriced product that will probably never significantly increase in value” – you’re joking, right? It’s ALREADY up $100 since 22 Jan, and will probably rise again come Thursday. And this is the initial sale price. Given what the present occupant of the Oval Office has in mind for the economy (which does nothing more than build on the machinations of the last blithering idiot to occupy that post), the dollar is a dead duck. But never mind the politics, economics, and speculation: the Mint has claimed 20k+ of these UHRs have been struck. The grading companies have announced deadlines to get a First Strike sticker. Due to their releasing SOME of these coins (however that may have happened), that clock is ticking. For collectors and those who deal in coins (and yes, for some people – not me, and I’m guessing not you – this stuff is their livelihood) this matters, and represents significant issues of profit or loss. Therefore, whether because of a bad batch of books which the Mint’s Director signed off on (and which the Mint – ergo the taxpayers – will have to eat, regardless), or because of a dispute over the contract with Pitney Bowes which the Mint Director signed off on (and which the Mint – ergo the taxpayers – will have to eat, regardless)… to hold the coins WHICH HAVE BEEN, BY ORDINARY AND CUSTOMARY BUSINESS PRACTICE PROMISED TO PAYING CUSTOMERS hostage, is DISGRACEFUL.
My biggest concern is pointed out by Good Stranger Really in post 14 regarding the annual report. Basically, it says that the mint is going to try to come closer to break even on collector sales by reducing margin and reduce the risk of loss in other ways. That is clearly not what is happening. The newly announced pricing scheme leaves the 15% margin in place. It looks to me like they intend to reduce profits by increasing costs (as in just give the profit away to the right contractors) and not by reducing prices. That $82 million will be gone in the 2009 report and the mint will exclaim it has done us all a great service by trimming margins to the bone while reducing the risk of loss (so the common taxpayer does not subsidize collectors), while the real truth will be that pockets have been lined and long term jobs secured. What little the mint does say is in direct contradiction to what it does and that almost always means that there really is something to hide.
I would like to go on record as one who does not put any blame on the people at the mint responsible for producing its products. I think that the US mint makes the finest coins in the world, quality shows in both design and production of both circulation and collector coins. Those responsible for delivering those products are standing on the shoulders of giants and spitting in their faces.
The ability to modify pricing weekly and the 7 day return policies significantly reduce risk to the mint, so why is the 15% margin still in place? Was $82 million not enough? Do the contractors want more than that to set up retirement positions for the top level bureaucrats? I personally didn’t mind the mint making a profit on the collector coins, but since it states that it is mint policy to break even on those sales, I am very worried about how they intend to make that happen.
bB – Wow! Well put.
Steve – While I consider history to be an important part of education, I’ll admit, Watergate is an event I’m not deeply versed in. I hear ya though.
I wish someone inside the food-chain would chime in and let us know exactly how this all works. Someone from The Mint, or PBGS, or UPS… I’m sure shipping contracts of this magnitude are handled in a special way. It’s not like us walking into a post office and asking how much it will cost to ship a box to Aunt Lucy.
Excellent suggestion you had regarding chipping in a few extra bucks to cover the signature cost. I’d gladly do that for this go-round till they get this mess straightened out. It could never happen though. Why?… Because too many people would cry foul and say we were basically bribing the Mint to jump ahead in line. Some would call this an act of impatience. I call in insurance. I’m still concerned that our orders might get cancelled and we have to get back in line and buy and the higher price… and hope they don’t run out of planchets. So I’d gladly chip in 3 bucks which should cover the fee and the over-head needed to make it happen. Wait… this is the government… make that 4 bucks.
tm bow – Regarding the future value of the coin, did you order one? Would seem strange that you’d invest in this if you’re so pessimistic about its future. So I’d wonder why you’re following along so closely. Not a problem though. We still have free speech. Obama hasn’t gotten to that one yet. That might be next though… after he tries to take our guns. Note to self… need to re-new my NRA membership.
I’m buying this coin mainly for its artistic design and beauty. I’m willing to pay this price since there’s an ounce of pure gold making up that design and beauty. This coin will always trade well above the spot price of gold. Even if they make a gazillion of them they will also trade above the price of the 1 oz. AGE. It’s pure gold. The AGE is not. So to knock this coin don’t you sort of have to knock bullion investing in general? Y’all are paying attention to what’s happening to the world economies aren’t you?…
Anyone who wants to cast their vote on this coin or many others can do so at the following site:
http://coinreview.com
It’s a new coin review site created by the same guy who created the Coin Network.
Many of you will like it.
Dave
Hey Folks!
Guess what? It’s all smoke & mirrors as usual.
Shipping? No problem. Simply allow the purchaser to select the type of shipping preferred. The Mint doesn’t have to pay a dime to require a signature, the purchaser will pay that, given the option to do so.
FIFO: Hey… it’s called a PO#. Ship them in the order in which they’re received. That’s what a PO# is for, along with other cool stuff like tracking information, etc.
Security Breach: This is just a matter of hiring a company that’s fluent in security codes. Passwords, security questions, etc. This isn’t that tough, believe me. note: when I set up my password at the mint, it didn’t allow me to mix numbers & letters, I don’t believe it even allows numbers in your password (can’t remember, it’s been awhile).
So why all the hub-bub? Because no one wants to take any responsibility for their actions anymore. Never did, with regards to politics, they’re too busy pointing the finger at someone else. Political correctness is at fault here. Everyone’s too afraid to say or do anything that might hurt someones feelings or create an opening for a law suit. Don’t think so? Then you’re not paying attention to the BIG picture.
The banks aren’t solely at fault for the financial melt down. The “Bozos” up on the hill are. Why? Because some folks think it’s everyones right to have the American Dream, whether they have to work for it or not. Making loans available for “Un-Qualified” borrowers is what started the ball rolling & THAT happened on the hill. The greed of the banking institutions (once that door was opened) is what caused the melt down. And as the vicious circle goes, it’s because someone was going to have their feelings “hurt” by being refused a loan in the first place. OR they’d scream discrimination OR they’d say it’s their right. Anything but do what had to be done to secure the loan properly in the first place. Like having a JOB! For those of you not aware, the NINJA loans are (in large part) why things went in the dumper. NINJA= No Job No Income Approvals. Nice huh?
OK, well I suppose I’ve said my fill. Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings… NOT. I think some folks really need a reality check. It aint all “Baseball & Apple Pie” anymore.
Thanks…
~The Yankee~
Oh well! I kew what i was gonna say, now that i’m here. I forgot. I second the motion yankee. But ya left alot of our troubles out of the picture. It’s more that got us into these messes. The mess will take how many decades it takes to straighten it self out. Hopefuly, the coins will have left the building!! If it takes that long. I dunno what to tell ya.
coiny
I got lucky through a couple of mishaps in the Mint’s phone service. First, I called Mr. Moy’s office which goes directly to voice mail, then I called the sales and marketing office, who directed me to the customer service line at 800-USA-MINT. I told the lady that wouldn’t work as we get no answers there. She said I should talk to Public Affairs, she attempted to transfer me there but made a mistake and patched me right through to Mr. Moy’s office.
I talked to the nice lady there and explained to her about what I knew and the frustration customers are experiencing with regard to communication from the Mint. I told her about Susan’s blog and the two press releases. She would neither confirm nor deny. But, she did say that if it wasn’t on the Mint’s website, it wasn’t official. I still have yet to see any info on the website. My opinion is that the info they gave Susan was “smoke and mirrors” and they knew they’d better not publish it on their website. They may be backing off those statements.
I asked her to confirm those statements and to provide more info as to when the matter will be resolved. I gave her my phone number and email address. She said that she would look into this “right away” and get back to me. I’m not holding my breath.
OK,here we go:
Have I ordered an UHR coin? Yes.In the first hour.
Is my order screwed up? Yes.
Am I pissed? Yes.
Am I surprised? No.
Why? Because of my original statement. We live in a dumbed-down society where incompetent and bad behavior are accepted and prepetutated. This was my whole point,folks. And it does not exclude the private sector. My tv company, health care provider and Lexus dealer are private and they will drive you nuts. So will my insurance , telephone and electric companies. WalMart and Kroger are not exemplars.
I have purchased from the mint since 1964. The only coins that truly represent an investment for me are the 10th anniversary American Eagle set. Even my dozen or so platinum Eagles are a disappointment and they have mintage numbers a fraction of what the UHR coin will be.
ps I don’t have debt which may explain why I can waste 1195 bucks on this coin.
pps Did no one catch my misspelling of dysfunctional? Incompetency may have rubbed off on me.
Yankee,
It does not seem that “political correctness” is the culprit for Mint behavior or the economic meltdown. Bad loans were made by Fanny, Freddy & private banks. They did the loans to line their pockets. Then they sold the loans to Wallstreet thus avoiding the “unqualified lender” issues. Wall street then tried to sell the bad paper to investors..When investors got wise, the whole Ponzi scheme came undone.
Of course lax regulation, thanks to “W” gave us stinkers like Bernie Madoff. Others like Stanford will emerge believe me. These people had nothing to do with political correctness, poor borrowers, or liberals. Many in the banking/Wall street industry remind me of the “Pirates of the Carribean”.
The fact is that most of us have lost confidence in out financial system and we are reluctant to spend or invest! That is the real issue. If we do not borrow, invest and spend then the wheels come off!
That brings us back to Moy (another “W” product) and our UHR coins. We are beginning to lose trust because we cannot get the truth. We are given shipping dates that never occur. We are denied information about the status of our orders. Websites suddenly go blank. No high ranking official will answer our questions.
Like I told Dave, I am old enough to remember Watergate. This issue reminds me of Nixon’s way of doing business. Nixon was “W’s” hero! He was never politically correct.
My Lincoln dollars arrived in todays mail. I posted scans of them over at http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?folderId=3&listMode=13&nav=messages&webtag=ab-coins.
The coins were not as well packaged as I have been accustomed to from the mint. The four coin boxes were in a larger box with just a small amount of wrinkled brown paper as filler. The coin boxes could bounce around in the outer box. This is new with PB, all previous coins were packed so that the inner boxes did not shift inside the outer packaging. Clearly costs are being minimized. Nowhere in the mint’s annual report did it say that contractor profits should be maximized at customer’s expense.
I guess I just have to gripe about something (the coins are not damaged from shipping) because I am still waiting for the charge for my UHRDE to reappear on my CC.
Anyway, the Lincoln dollars are very nice. I still wish that some sort of image could have been found to grace the reverse instead of an inscription, but one of the most enduring things about Mr. Lincoln are his words, and the words on the reverse of this coin are among his best. I am still happy that I ordered them. I will get at least one more when a set with the (hopefully copper) pennies is produced later in the year.
Does anyone know if the mint has resumed shipping of 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coins (UH1)?
JJ,
You might as well ask the CIA about nuclear secrets. Nobody knows a thing outside of top Mint officials who are not talking.
Paranoia is rampant in the collector community and it grows stronger with each passing day.
Just got a new ship date for my UHRDE ordered in the first ten minutes. *APRIL 24, 2009*
The Mint customer service person reminded me that customers were told it could take up to nine months. What a bunch of crap.
I have this feeling that either the Mint is unable to make this coin or it is very low on their priority list.
The customer service person did say a few had been shipped but didn’t know how many.
I just got off the phone with them as well and was told they would start shipping by the end of the week. But, I’ve read the April 24th shipping date on other forums as well. I know they are getting inundated with calls.
I think it is safe to say that the phone reps don’t know what is going on and more than likely even their immediate supervisors don’t now either.
We should keep calling though. Word will get to the Mint that they have not done a very good job of communicating with us.
Just got off the phone with the Mint. My UHR moved from being picked off the shelf to “we don’t know what its status is”. My Lincolns were also deferred 4-6 weeks. Both of these items were ordered well within the first hour of sale. I had no idea that our government could be so utterly incompetent. They need to change the statement on the coins to say: “IN GOD WE TRUST…CERTAINLY NOT THE MINT”.
Susan,
Here is a little info to add to this Mint fiasco. I ordered a $250 Madison dollar direct ship box on Jan 3rd this year. The Mint said they delivered it on Jan 21st and I have never recieved it. I had wait 30 days to fill out and mail a form (CNR#66) to get a refund or get a replacement. No telling when this will be resolved.
A second issue is my 2009 Ultra High Relief order. I placed it at 1:41pm on the first day of availability. At first I got a Feb 6th expected delivery date, this was moved to Feb 20th a few days after Feb 6th. Then, the order history part of the Mint’s website went down. Then on Feb 19th I called and waited 20 minutes as was told my order would ship 2/21/09 by UPS Ground. I just called today Feb 24th and was told my order was expected to ship on APRIL 24th!!!??? What is going on with the Mint? This is totally ridiculous and I wonder if the Mint is filling orders of customers that paid the current price (which is $100 more than I paid) before my order. They have the Monopoly on these services and treat longtime customers however they want because there is nowhere else to get these products without a major surcharge. I am sure many others are having this same experience.
Yes, the Mint did say it could be 6-9 months till they ship but wasn’t that due to the uncertainty of obtaining the necessary planchets? Supposedly they had already minted enough to meet the first day’s orders.
Also, if folks are now being told that the ship date is April 24, why on earth does the web site STILL say that the expected ship date for orders placed NOW is March 6? Is it just my thinking or does this borderline on false advertising?
Another also, they are obviously not honoring the FIFO commitment (more false advertising). People who have reported receiving their coins have also stated that they did not order within the first few hours.
I haven’t said this before but I do think it’s time to clean house at the Mint. This is tooooooo unacceptable.
The signature thing so often depends on teh carrier. I’ve had gold coins shipped over the past few years and simply dumped on the doorstep in plain view… I wasn’t pleased with the delivery folks but they think they are doing you a favor! As to the UHR, it will come when it comes…
Finally, something on the Mint’s website about this. See http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/TopCategoriesDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001
Effective February 10, 2009, at 8:00 am (ET), the United States Mint will institute a 7-day return policy on all products (except $1 coin direct shipments, which are not considered numismatic products.) Under this new policy, United States Mint customers will have the opportunity to return products within 7 calendar days from the date they receive their orders.
********************************************************
The United States Mint is pleased to announce that we will resume shipping the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin during the week of February 22, 2009. However, because of production problems with the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin Companion Book, you may receive only the COIN and presentation box at this time. If you are a customer who receives the COIN without the Companion Book, we will ship the Companion Book to you, at no extra charge, when it becomes available. For information on how this may affect the return of the product if you are not satisfied, please see FAQ #210.
In reference to those pallets of freshly printed greenbacks…I prefer them being spent here in America than the pallets that were sent to Iraq and ended up missing!!! Thanks W…I didn’t need my money!
Ironic!!
They refuse to answer Susan’s questions about the coin we all want – but then say they’re resuming shipping on their website.
They give detailed & bogus answers about Order Tracking and Shipping issues to Susan – but refuse to address them on their website.
Called Mint on 2/24 and was told all UHR orders placed before this date will ship by 4/26. Ordered the 1st hour of sale and still no UHR or updated ship notice. Prior notice date said 2/20.
Has anyone had loose coins in their shipments? 3 of 5 orders received this year have had gold coins come out of their Mint boxes and bouncing around in the shipping box. Have also had 3 of 5 1k plus orders and all 5 left on doorstep, despite rep from Mint telling me after the 1st one was left, that she noted all future orders would ship via Fed Ex with signature confirmation. My last order of presidential sets where thrown in a severely over sized box without proper padding so they could again, bounce around inside shipping box.
Also still waiting on Lincolns despite placing order 20 min. after they went on sale.
Thank you for providing some kind of update on the inept attempt that the Mint horrendously made when switching shipping providers. Would have been nice to hear it from them when calling and inquiring about failed ship notice attempts, poor packaging, and when the online tracking would be re instated.
Thanks again for this opportunity to vent!
Same here.
I called last night during the Presidents speech.
It took them nearly 15 minutes to answer.
When I did talk to someone they said my order was due to ship March 4th.
I placed my order 16 minutes after they were available for sale.
I then asked when is the tracking link is going to be working and the answer I got was by Friday, they hope.
Note that when calling in a message says you can get tracking info on the web, but it does not work.
Oh well. Lets see what happens from here on out.
I ordered my household limit of one UHR $20 Gold piece on Jan. 22, the day of release. I was told it would ship on Feb. 6, then on Feb. 18, then on Feb. 18 when order tracking had been disabled, I called to see if it had shipped and was told that since I ordered on the day of release it would be shipping that Friday, Feb. 20 and I would receive an email confirmation. When I had not received any email confirmation by Feb. 23, I called to speak to a representative. I was on hold so long that I had to disconnect the call. I called again last night, Feb. 24, and held for about twenty minutes before a rep answered and told me that since I had ordered before Jan. 23 my order would ship by April 24. They charged my credit card on Feb. 9, but it appears the charge was removed on Feb. 14. The US Mint isn’t new to this business. In my opinion, we just have to sit and wait and watch our balances go up and down by thousands of dollars not knowing when we’ll actually be charged while there’s really no recourse but to complain on websites like this because the Mint is owned by our beloved government and they have us by the planchets. God help us all is my last comment.
Hi everyone,
I ordered my coin on 1/22/09 at 9:48:47. After three notices that the delivery date would be later than expected I called The Mint yesterday. After about 20 minutes of non-answers I requested a Supervisor. When the person came back to the phone she was sorry but there was not a supervisor on the floor. All she could tell me was that it would be 6 to 8 months before the coin would be delivered even though she said we are high on the list. I was supprised to learn that our name was still in the computer. What a way to run a business you say! Amen to that! Very disappointed in Las Vegas. Catharina Vardiman.
This has been particularly frustrating to overseas customers (I am such, living in the UK). And to add insult to injury, when I telephoned the US Mint number a recorded voice tells the caller that no operatives are available and disconnects. I am still awaiting my UHR Double Eagle after ordering within hours of it going on sale. Please USM get your act together we are your customers! vn
JJ. I Recieved my UHR on the 9th of Feb. They are going out slowly I guess is the safe way to say it. Beautiful Coin too I might add
Am I the only one in the Country that has the UHR ? 1933 here we come…..
I had one order last year that was cancelled after sopposed shipping on three separate occassions. I received no coins for several weeks and finally received two orders instead of one.
This foolishness is probably why the Mint changed fulfillment vendors but it sounds as though only lawyers read the new contract with Pitney Bowes. However, not any customer service or marketing people bothered to read the contract.
Today was OK until I checked my e-mail… I received an e-mail from the mint indicating they had received my order with an order number and the date ordered (2/24/09)and two products; Presidential Dollar Subscription(MJF)- backordered 3-12-09 and 2009 Pres $1 Coin Proof Set(PD4)- in stock
The problem… I made no such order.
A call to the 1-800-USA-MINT leads to a recording that led to a “succinct” message telling me how sorry they were but they couldn’t complete my call at the moment. The did say I could get order info online… not.
Misinformation with no recourse… what a joke. FUBAR does not do this mess justice as it, daily, gets worse.
More beer… soon.
I just tried to check the status of an order that was shipped on 2/20/09. The Mint’s order confirmation email listed two rows of tracking numbers with no indication as to which number was associated with which carrier. So I tried all possible combinations and got nothing but error messages.
I then called the Mint at 1:45 pm and selected menu option 2 to inquire about an existing order. After being told that a representative would be with me shortly and then waiting a few more seconds a recording told me that no one was available to answer my call and that I should “try again later.” Well, which is it?
Suggestion #1 to the Mint: Hire about 100 people to answer the phones. If that’s not enough, hire another 100, etc., until you have enough. If you can’t manage customer service then you shouldn’t be in the business of selling.
Suggestion #2: Contact Jeff Bezos at Amazon and ask him to design an ordering / tracking system that works.
Rob: If the second row is 22 numbers, try entering it at FedEx. If your order is on standard shipping, the number will work at FedEx for the first part of the journey, and then will it will work at USPS once it hits a USPS hub. The USPS site probably won’t update until after you receive your package.
oops: I have several occasions where a subscription order was incorrectly entered and then corrected at the mint. Apparently, they process subscriptions by manually entering an order for you if you have a subscription. That seems to be part of why subscriptions are in the back of the line when new products are released. The last time it happened to me was with my subscription for uncirculated silver eagles. I never received an email, but my order history has an entry that ordered and canceled one proof eagle and then properly ordered 5 uncirculated eagles. This and your story now is what leads me to believe that there is some sort of manual entry happening. A fully automated subscription system should be able to place all subscription orders as soon as the coin in question is released to the order entry system. The only subscription item current shipping is the Presidential Dollar Proof Set.
More beer did not help…
I was finally able to wade through an 8 minute wait for a cust. svc. rep to answer (after many re-dials just to get to the mint’s phone tree).
The customer svc. rep, was dismissive, confusing and gave obviously “off the cuff” answers that did not actually answer my concerns.
She finally “pulled up” an internal memo explaining what was happening with customers who received e-mails about recent orders that were actually never made by customers, such as mine.
She said “someone”, yesterday, at the mint had accidentally “pushed a button” that created the “order” on my acct. and suto-generated the e-mail I received today.
Then she said I had nothing to worry about because “someone” had caught the mistake and already cancelled the order and my credit card had not been charged. Nothing to worry about..?
I expressed the degree of “mistakes” by “someone” as incredibly concerning at which point she laughed… I asked for a supervisor and she said none were available.
I asked her why they did explain anything in the “Order Receipt” e-mail or, at the least, in a follow-up e-mail explaining “someone’s mistake of hitting the wrong button”.
I responded that most professional organizations that offer accurate and sincere customer service are not so consistently arrogant and unhelpful.
Alas, “Debbie’s” answer to my commentary was a final laugh, asking if I’d like to make “another” order which caused me to laugh… into a disconnected line.
Arrogant, incompetent, obtuse, intentionally misleading… and consistent has been my experience with the mint in recent months. After years of having an account with them I have been reluctant to just walk away, but there is always the proverbial “last straw”.
If I could get to my account on-line I’d cancel it in total. Private enterprise will get any future orders.
Mr. Moy you, obviously, need a beer to clear your mind.
Just received this from the Mint. Dear Customer,
The United States Mint is pleased to announce that we will resume shipping of the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin during the week of February 22, 2009. However, because of production problems with the Companion Book, you may receive only the COIN and presentation box at this time. If you are a customer who receives the COIN without the Companion Book, we will ship the Companion Book to you, at no extra charge, when it becomes available.
If you ordered your 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin between January 22, 2009, and February 9, 2009, you are under the 30-day return policy. If you ordered on or after February 10, 2009, you are under the seven-day return policy. The return timeframe for the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold COIN and presentation box will begin on the date you receive it. If you are dissatisfied for any reason with your 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold COIN, you may send it back to the United States Mint within the applicable return period for a full refund or replacement. If you return your COIN for any reason prior to receiving the Companion Book, we will cancel your shipment of the Companion Book. If you receive the Companion Book within the applicable return period, you must return both for a full refund.
If your Companion Book is shipped separately, the exchange timeframe for it also will begin on the date you receive it and under the same return policy – 30 days or seven days – as applicable. We will make no refunds for the Companion Book; we will make exchanges for damages only.
Customers’ orders will be shipped on a first-come, first-served basis. You will be notified by email when your order has shipped. If you do not receive the Companion Book with your COIN, you will receive a second e-mail notification when we ship the Companion Book.
If you ordered the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin between January 22 and February 23, 2009, we expect to ship it by April 24, 2009.
If you place your order for the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin on or after February 24 (and up until March 24, 2009), we expect to ship it by May 24, 2009.
Thank you for your interest in United States Mint products.
Susan, Thanks for all the timely and interesting info we receive via YOU! On the topic of the Mint issues, I wonder also about how much the move of the fulfillment center has to do with all these problems? They are now located about 7 miles from my house in Plainfield, Indiana. I received a shipping confirmation 2 days ago on my Lincoln Commemorative dollars and haven’t seen them yet….. here we go again!
Can we really trust the US Mint? For gold content? Who checks them?! Who checks any of the mints? … maybe they stamping out junk just like the Treasury is going to be doing?
Unfortunately, the email people are getting (yes, I just got mine) regarding the UHRDE appears to be legitimate. Even though it comes from a previously unseen sender of “customers@usmint.gov” the IP addresses check out as belonging to the mint (not to its fulfillment contractor). It also knows the order number associated with each of our orders.
I say unfortunately because the mint is “pleased” with itself about this. And aren’t I lucky that the book will come at “no extra charge” which has always been mint policy on split orders. This short notice uses the words (in bold) “Companion Book” ten times, just in case I fail to understand that this has been the issue all along (NOT). Still, no admission of any mistakes or missteps by the mint or its contractors. No apology, no explanation. They do reiterate the first-come, first-served promise for shipping, which they appear to already be violating. Couple all of that with the notion that it might take them two more months to ship orders for which they already have coins ready for and the fact that in previous years the have shipped an average of over 8000 orders per day, 365 days a year, and you have to wonder what’s next.
My order, placed 21 minutes after sales began, ought to be in the first batch to go out (order pace was about 200 per minute early on), and they ought be able to get 8000 of them out every day (which would ship the first day’s orders in four days). My CC has not been charged again (yet), so my coin will not ship today, even though if they have started shipping, it should.
I posted this in the updated blog from yesterday. But, orders are being received by customers today. BUT, they are out of sequence AGAIN. The Mint is not abiding by the “First In First Out” rule they set. This, in my opinion is inexcusable.
This whole matter of a security breach is due to ineptness. To minimize security issues, the Mint location where the coins are minted should fulfill the orders, not a third party shipper. It is absurd that the Mint ships the orders to another shipper to ship the order to the customer. How many times does something have to shipped?
The coins should be shipped only once–to the customer. The multiple handling of the coins to fulfill an order adds costs to the order fulfillment process. Security risks heighten security risks because so many hands handle the order.
I know that the Mint sends the orders in bulk to the fulfillment center, which then breaks-down the bulk shipment to individual shipments. However, to preclude losses and shipping delays if the Mint sells a coin, then the Mint should handle all aspects of the sale of it. When the coin order ships from the Mint, this is the one time that the Mints will have shipped the coin order–to the customer.
The Mint makes a fortune from its coin sales. What a disgrace to hear that a shipped coin order is left at the customer’s door because the Mint refuses to pay an additional $2-3 for signature evidence that that someone actually received the order.
Another matter, why does it always take forever to receive an order from the Mint for a special coin or coins? Either the Mint has the product or it does not. If not, the Mint should not take customers orders until the product is available for sale and the Mint can ship the order promptly. This is basic business practice. It is asinine to receive different shipping dates for one’s order.
Finally, who needed the book to accompany the UHR coin? This book just adds unnecessary cost to the Mint pricing for the UHR coin. The book should have been sold separately. The cost of the book would be the amount of price reduction of the coin. On the other hand, if the book must be part of the sale, then why does the Mint have problems dealing with the book accompanying the UHR coin order? The Mint has to incur additional shipping and handling expense because the book is not available concurrently with the coin to be shipped. Even this cannot be done competently?
All of the multiple shipping and handling issues along with the inability to fulfill orders timely leads me to the unfortunate conclusion that the Mint is run by incompetents. The Mint acts as if the sale of the UHR coin is the first time the Mint ever sold anything to collectors. If this were the first time, I would empathize with the Mint with its problems fulfilling orders. However, this is NOT the case. What is wrong with the Mint that it cannot handle coin orders efficiently and proficiently after decades of selling coins to collectors?
I might be willing to forgive/forget the Mint’s prior UHRDE delivery issues, but to now sent emails to us (reflecting our actual order #s) and include a statement that the orders will (again!!) be handled in a “First In/First Out” basis and then NOT follow that policy….this is an ABSOLUTE ADDITIONAL INSULT to everyone who successfully placed an early order!!!!
I bet I know what the real problem is Susan . . . Imagine what a problem it would be to have lost an undetermined amout of UHRDE’s shipped out between say 01-28-09 and 02-10-09. This has got to be one of the biggest blunders in the US Mints history, and just like watergate, the truth and consequences won’t due, so lets cover it up, QUICKLY!
Isn’t it about time to urge President Obama to get rid of Moy and fill the postion with someone who can run an organization. I have checked Moy’s resume and see nothing that qualifies him for the job other than the Bush family liked him and gave him multiple Govt appointments over the past 19 years. Enough of us contact the White House and maybe we will get some action. Moy is inept and awfully unqualified to run the Mint.
I would be thrilled just to hear if/when trhe Phila Mintn would reopen for full-time public visiting of the presses as it was pre-9/11/01.
My final thoughts on “The Mint”…
My naive, early, impressions of the mint as being a solid, fundamentally proper, TRUSTWORTHY side of government have eroded into seeing just another self-serving enclave of indifferent bureaucrats.
Their responses/non-responses to widespread dissatisfaction (to put it mildly) with their customer service issues are insults to the public’s intelligence and common sense.
“If their lips are moving…” has never been more true than when wading through a BS session at 1-800-USA-MINT or trying to find ANYTHING that is timely/reflective of reality on their website.
The Moy mint’s incompetence and horribly flawed policy of ever-changing excuses and mis-information have led to the inevitable breakdown in their credibility. To call their current (or past) coin distribution providers “fulfillment” centers is laughable… frustration providers would be more accurate.
The level of “disconnect” between the growing level of collector angst and the tone deaf, take-it-or-leave-it attitude by the mint and/or their “down stream” accomplices… is a very troubling sign of a fundamental change in the US MINT collector’s universe.
My final exasperated gasps are positive. The mint’s blue collar folks are hard working and do their daily best, I firmly believe. (Not so with their upper echelon, salaried executive types who read papers, slap each other’s backs, parse words for CYA press releases and attend “functions”.)
AND… full disclosure time, I am a very small time collector who enjoys coins, history and “the hobby”. I don’t claim to know what the “real deal” is with all these problems in the BIG world.
My dad collected coins for decades and was devastated when his collection was stolen in a burglary… he lost his enjoyment and quit the hobby, in his 80’s.
Mr. Moy you are creating some of the same emotion… in-between your high-level cronyism and self-serving photo-ops, try reading some of the above e-mails.
Susan Headly provides us all with one of the best sources of information “from the trenches”… not from parsed press releases. She has fired my desire to comment several times in recent days… which is not usual for me. I’m thankful for folks, like her and the commentors above, as they all carry the torch and “find stuff out”.
They improve the hobby… turn up your hearing aid Mr. Moy.
I have an annual subscription for 100 units of the Presidential Proof Set. Nevertheless, on 2/10 at noon, I placed 3 more orders for 100 of the same item. On 2/19, 2 of the 3 orders placed on 2/10 arrived. On 2/25, I received an e-mail that my subscription order was just processed and would ship in 2-3 weeks. I am confused, shouldn’t a subscription order be processed as soon as the release date arrives? What is the benefit to a subscription order if they are processed so late?
Thomas, the mint does in fact treat subscription orders special. They go to the end of the line for new product introductions. This makes no sense to me either. I can only imagine that it helps the mint. I believe the use subscriptions to smooth out the demand for new product introductions. Subscription orders always seem to be processed one or more weeks after the product is released to the ordering system. One would think that all subscription orders would be automatically placed at time zero, but that is not what happens. Our reward for giving the mint a heads up on product demand is a poke in the eye. I have several subscription orders (all small quantities) and they are always processed weeks after I could have entered them online. Perhaps the people at the mint feel that if they placed all of the subscription orders first, then “normal folk” would all be angry if that caused delays in the delivery of their orders. There may be some truth to that, but isn’t that what first-come, first-served is all about. Since the mint knows way ahead of time how many subscriptions it needs to fill, what is there to prevent them from being ready for that? If they are trying to avoid bottlenecks in the fulfillment center, isn’t there a better way to do that than by punishing your most loyal customers?
Ship subscriptions a few days early, post a ship date to account for the subscriptions already in line when the product is released, hire extra help for a few days to get orders out, do something that does not kick the very people that are helping you predict and plan your production and fulfillment.
The fact that you can place an order online and receive it before your subscription for that product is even processed is very frustrating. Yes, I enjoy the fact that I don’t have to remember to watch the net for my favorite products to be released, but is that all I get? I promise to buy these products every year. I want something tangible in return. I want my rightful place in line.
And I ordered my coin on the first day, 12:12:39 PM
So, 12 minutes after it goes on sale, I get my order in and I receive an confirmation email confirmation at 12:16 PM.
I then get an email on;
- 1/27/09 that it will ship on 2/6
- 2/2/09 that it will ship on 2/17
- 2/3/09 that it will ship on 2/18
- 2/25/09 mass email that everyone got
Talked to Mint rep and gave me the usual info everyone is reporting…..maybe April but possibly before then. She didn’t have any additional information except you’ll get it when you get it. She did say that my CC was already approved on 2/9
Frustrating – I thought I was in great positon because of when I ordered it…only 12 minutes after going on sale.
just got off the phone with the mint again, and she did indicate to me that the FIFO policy is not in place at the moment. She said when the books came in everything was going okay, but when they noticed the books were damaged they rescheduled all orders and that is when the FIFO went out the window. So even though I ordered 32 minutes after going on sale it did not matter. They are now just sending them out without regard to FIFO. I told her last Friday I was told by a rep that mine would ship the first of the week, she said she could not tell me when it would be shipped, and she did not know how he could have told me that. So now I’m back too ‘I don’t know again’. If there really is a Mr Moy, I would say he could care less about our problems, our the policy of FIFO!!!!!!!!
Heck! I cannot get the Mint on the phone! Have subscriptions and cannot get them. The Mint tells me subscriptions “do not get order numbers.” However, for the past nine years I get a subscription “order number” about a week before the product goes on sale. The Mint HAS MAJOR problems.
Amazing…Today a rep at the mint said it is untrue about a new process for shiping and my order placed 1/30/09 is finally in the warehouse to ship and may get out in a week-10 days or longer….Amazing….after calls daily and only reaching someone 3 times!!! they need to clean up their act!
Who is nikky.
24 June 2009,I came very late to this forum.
I see that many people are as POd as I was about not getting the 2009 Lincoln Silver Commemorative dollar. It appears that the Mint is incompetently managed. I wrote a letter to the Treasury Inspector General stating as much. Nothing will come of one letter but if many people write letters then I think something may be accomplished.
EVERY COIN THE THAT IS MADE IN THE UNITED STATE SHOULD SAY “IN GOD WE TRUST” SO I HOPE THEY NEVER MAKE A COIN WITHOUT THAT ON THERE.. IF WE HAVE ANYONE GODS IN OUR LIVES, MAYBE WE WOULDNT SEE ALL THE BAD THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING AROUND THE WORLD. WE CANT FORGET GOD, NO MATTER WHOS GOD IT IS. AND IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IN GOD, YOUR PROBLEM.DONT MAKE YOUR PROBLEMS EVERYONE ELSES. SO EVERY COIN SHOULD HAVE “IN GOD WE TRUST” ON IT,