Most coin collectors are aware by now that it is not "business as usual" on the U.S. Mint Web site these days. Problems began in early January when the Mint changed eCommerce fulfillment contractors (again. You might remember the last time the Mint changed contractors in Jan. 2008; the Mint Web site suffered an 8-day outage!)
One of the biggest problems the Mint is dealing with right now has actually been around for at least two years. I first reported it to them in late 2006, and reports from readers confirm that the recent events are far from the first of this type that the Mint Web site has seen. Here's what happened:
When the 2009 Ultra-High Relief Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle (what the hobby seems to be calling the UHRDE now, formerly called the UHR) went on sale, the Mint's Web site suffered its usual first-hour-of-sales lock-down. Buyers repeatedly refreshed the pages over and over, trying to place their orders early in the cycle so they could get their coins first and avoid potential delays due to high demand. This was pretty much Business As Usual for the U.S. Mint.
The first inkling of problems came when most UHRDE buyers were sent a U.S. Mint email a couple of days after the on-sale date, informing them that their coins were back-ordered until Feb. 6th. This was in contrast to the ship date of Jan. 28 given on the Web site when they placed their orders. A couple of days later, most buyers got another email moving the ship date to Feb. 11. Then came the email moving the date to Feb. 18, followed by another email rescinding all of the above and returning the date to the 6th! And it didn't end here; some buyers got further emails with dates as late as mid-March.
Naturally, this engendered a lot of confusion and speculation among the online collecting community. People began comparing notes, posting their UHRDE order numbers and the times they placed their order that first day, in an effort to see if everyone was being treated fairly in the sequence in which they placed their coin order. Some people who post in online forums and in blog comment threads do so under their real names, or their real names are widely known because they're dealers or journalists or other more or less public figures in coin collecting.
The U.S. Mint Web site's security problem was that it had an unsecured order-checking-and-cancellation process, where anybody who knew the name and order number could enter this information and retrieve the order records for the person involved, without knowing anything else about them or logging into the U.S. Mint eCommerce system.
Some ill-intentioned idiot put together the names and order numbers for several collectors who were sharing information online, and he used the Mint's Web site to cancel their UHRDE orders. This created a dual hardship for the victims: not only had the price of the UHRDE gone up by $100 in the two weeks or so between when the orders were placed and when they were canceled, the victim lost his place in line for this highly sought-after coin. The Mint customer service reps and their supervisors said they couldn't reinstate the canceled orders.
Although I know of three confirmed victims, only one has gone public. A user named Tom on the CoinNetwork.com social networking site openly shared his experience with having his UHRDE order canceled.
Michael Zielinksi, the Webmaster of CoinNetwork.com, sent an email about the breach to his contact in the U.S. Mint's Public Affairs Office, and also notified me about it. I was aware of the situation, since word travels fast online, and had coincidentally spoken to my contact in the Public Affairs Office about it earlier that day. To their credit, the Mint acted quickly and decisively. My contact asked me to document what I knew in writing so he could forward it to the Mint's marketing department for action. With reports now from two of the major numismatic Webmasters, the Mint responded by removing the Track Orders feature from their Web site the morning of Feb. 12.
People who have been wondering why the Track Orders feature is disabled now have their answer. Although I am generally not of a mind to suppress security problems, I did feel that it was appropriate to give the Mint some time to address the problem before warning people about it, a decision that Michael concurred with, so I'm happy to report that we don't have to warn people at all, just tell them why things are not functioning normally when it comes to tracking orders. However, Michael did write up some tips for protecting your privacy online, which I think are well worth reading.
The order cancellation matter isn't the only security problem the Mint is having right now. There have been dozens of reports around the Web of people who have had their U.S. Mint coins dumped on their doorsteps by UPS without anybody knocking on the door or asking for a signature. One report I heard was of a $357,000 bullion coin order in 8 boxes that was dumped on a doorstep at 10:30 am, where it sat unprotected until the recipient got home at 6:00 pm. Numerous people have reported gold coins being left unattended and unsigned for.
According to an article in the March 2 Coin World, the problem seems to be some kind of disconnect between the Mint and their new fulfillment contractor, Pitney-Bowes Government Solutions. The Mint hasn't provided any information or explanation, despite significant pestering on my part. ;) My contact there says he hopes to be able to release a statement tomorrow (Wed.) If they send me a statement, I'll post it on my home page.
Have you been a victim of the U.S. Mint's security problems? Please share your experience in the comments below for possible follow-up.
Comments
I applaud the fact that the Mint took action involving the security breach but why couldn’t they just set the Track Order feature to be accessible after the user logs in? That’s how it should have been set up in the first place since it’s customer info. It’s not rocket science, it’s just run of the mill computer programming. They have bigger issues though with the delivery signature snafu. I hope they get that resolved soon.
It’s nice to finally be getting at least some info.
My brother ordered 6 different Presidential dollars from the mint via their direct ship program. That’s 10 rolls for each coin totalling $1500. It was shipped via UPS but they did not deliver it to his house. Instead they delivered it to the Post Office who then left it on his front porch – no signature required. Apparently it’s cheaper for UPS to let the Post Office deliver in his town.
In January, I ordered the new 2009 Sacagawea through the direct ship program ($250 worth of coins) and UPS just left it on my doorstep – no signature required.
But this is nothing new. I have been ordering from the mint for years and have always been amazed that EVERYTHING I’ve ever received from them has just been left at my door – no signature required. Sometimes they ring the doorbell before they run, but not always.
bqck when they -only- used FedEx for high dollar shipments, the FedEx drivers -always- got signatures.
I primarily blame UPS, and strongly urge the Mint to ship out the UHR coins ASAP via FedEx only or via USPS with signature confirmation.
At this point, I think we as a collecting community can understand the security issue, but cannot understand why such simple fixes have not been employed.
The new “backorder date” is March 20th and I expect the UHR coin to ship on the 20th.
The solution is not hard. Even -If- FedEx can’t accomodate it, -everyone- knows the USPS can and has been able to handle “signature for delivery” for years.
i frankly put little stock in the convenient explanation that your public affairs contact provided….. did you get an explanation why the us mint failed to get back to you on your earlier inquiry about the ever changing shipping dates?. the real reason why i have no confidence in the us mint spokesperson, is because they could have posted a notice on the main page. that would have satisfied customer inquiries, before we placed call to the us mints contractor (i mean customer service specialists) who would rather make up an explaination than say i don’t know. even the dept of the treasury office of the inspector general could not believe the scope of the mint’s customer service failures
Yeah I think its the carrier. They usually leave stuff on my front door it sit there all day beating by the sun or it get wet when it rain or the springler when it comes on. Mostly things I order online need signature USPS (post office) always let someone sign it before leaving the package(s), but I notice when FedEx or UPS they usually leave it by the front door. One time I got a problem on the packages I was left out because it say one the delivery signature “signature on file” but no body sign it when I called them they told me I sign a form that I’m releasing it to be drop off with out any signature on my packages. Why would I do that, I order a lot of valuable online and I don’t want my package sitting outside for hours. They should just use USPS (post office) the mailman always need signature if the package have a delivery signature. And beside USPS is goverment maybe they will be able to send the packages for free since US Mint is goverment that is a big savings they send million of packages, if not pay the same amount $4.95, that will help USPS since they losing money every year. Every year they add couple cent for the stamp, I heard stamp will go up again, why not help them out.
Yeah I think its the carrier. They usually leave stuff on the front door it sit there all day beating by the sun or it get wet when it rain or the springler when it comes on. Mostly things I order online need signature USPS (post office) always let someone sign it before leaving the packages, but I notice when FedEx or UPS they usually leave it by the front door. One time I got a problem on the packages I was left out because it says on the delivery signature “signature on file” but no body sign it when I called them they told me I sign a form that I’m releasing it to be drop off with out any signature on my packages. Why would I do that, I order a lot of valuable online and I don’t want my package sitting out side for hours. They should just use USPS (post office) the mail man always need signature if the package have a delivery signature. And beside USPS is goverment maybe they will be able to send the packages for free since US Mint is goverment that is a big savings they send million of packages, if not pay the same amount $4.95 that will help USPS since they losing money every year. Every year they add couple cent for the stamp, I heard stamp will go up again, why not help them out.
if you are stupid enough to give out personal info you are going to get ripped off
Just a question – If the UHR Saint Gaudens is such an overpriced coin, as stated in your previous article on the release of the coin, why did you join the rush to buy one? Do what I say, not what I do???
I ordered a 1/4 oz buffalo unc to give as a gift and never received it. That really sucked because it was a very momentous occasion nd I had no reaction time available for replacement.I believe it has something to do with thefact that the mint did not require a signature as it wa under $300. $299 was the charge.The mint also is suppose to upgrade automatically gold orders to expedite requested or not. They usually ship fedx. This was shipped I think via DHL/USPS. Either way no coin and no chance EVER of replacement. That occasion was on 0/31/08 for my niece.
I also had ordered a proof 1/2 plat and unc 1/2 plat that after I signed for the fedx box opened i and it was empty but did have the packing slip and a sales insert.
I did receive credit or both but though promised could not order the plats until
I recieved the credit back to my cc. I just have only so much money.
That puts a hole in my 2006-2008 collection.
I also had my 4 coin unc AGE set cancelled. The mint claimed I had no available credit on my card. UNTRUE.
i don’t know what the game is they were playing but when I checked I had 4K available.
I may be wrong and I will check with my cc but it appears that the mint had taken the authorization thus available credit and then just creit me back and canceled my order.
I asked the mint about this and the rep told me they tried twice to get an approval but were denied.
I also received no email letting me know ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT ANY OF THIS.
I just have to suck it up on this one.
I am bothered that I did not get the chance of a lifetime to gie that 1/4 unc buffalo as a gift. There are many personal resons why that gift meant so much.
Part of it was to give honor for my dad. He passed away in 1999.
I did however order a second 1/2 oz unc plat as backup and received it.
Lastly the mint canceled my 4 coin platinum proof set many months after I had ordered it.
It was ordered at a time when others received theirs. I have the number. I will share it with someone of authority that can explain why.
I wish all the best in collecting for fun and other reasons to all.
Coinspeak
As has been stated Fedex makes you sign for these items from the Mint. UPS just follows it’s standard practice, which is just leave it at the door and I guess depending how far the driver is behind on his schedule you may or may not get door bell ring. For the mint to change from Fedex to UPS without demanding a face-to-face signature is outrageously irresponsible. There are many places where an item left on a doorstep will be stolen in less than five minutes. USPS is absolutely no solution. They will obtain a signature but your package of “proofs” may be in pieces. They are totally careless. They will put a package of steel bars on top of a crystal Bowl with impunity. Somehow if something works right the government will seek a way to screw it up.
my previous comment had an error in the ship date.
the current ship is _February_ 20th, not march 20th.
Anyway, for a $1 coin direct ship order placed on 2/11/2008 in the amount of $500 total, it was shipped yesterday and received today, 2/18/2008. An order placed on 2/4/2008 for a much larger amount of $1 direct ship dollars has not left the building.
Simple solution: go back to FedEx only, or fall back to USPS with “signature confirmation required.” How hard is that?
and to follow up again:
FedEx would leave a door tag if you were not home. I’d have to show my driver’s license at the FedEx office and sign there.
I’m shocked that 1 and 1 hasn’t been put together and switching back to FedEx hasn’t been implemented already.
Also: while I’ve had some damaged mail from USPS, I’ve also had damaged items from UPS & FedEx. The USPS has even lost an eBay shipment of mine, but made good on the insurance without hassles. I still contend USPS is a viable option.
Folks,
It has been a very strange month dealing with the Mint. I ordered the UHR at 12:13 on Jan 22 and recieved the Jan 28 ship date. The dates have moved progressively later as the weeks have passed. My last date was for Feb 20, but I will not hold my breath. I also ordered the Lincoln Proof Silver Dollar on the day it was offered.
I now have no idea as to when any of my orders will be shipped because of the mint website snafus! Phone inquiries seem to produce misinformation at best. I still do not understand why some have recieved their orders even though they placed their requests after I did?
I think that it is time for “Change That We Can Believe In!” Geitner needs to replace this service/shipping crew. Any big outfit such as Blanchards would probably answer!
I’m no computer expert. Every one that signs in to the Mint’s web site has a password. According to the sign in page, after so many failed attempts at signing in. The mint will lock down that sign in feature for 24 hours. If a hacker has a certain amount of information, they still have to get around the pass words. So is this an inside job? OR a really clever hacker who got lucky enough to figure out that many pass words, before the mint’s sign in page shut down. It boggles the mind. Not saying what is being said isn’t true. To me anyway, i think my chances of hitting the lottery would be better, than a hacker or could figure out that many pass words. Unless theres something i don’t know! Just an opionion.
coiny
Corrections dept.. The end sentences should read a hacker, OR two.
coiny
Coiny, the problem was, that to cancel an order, you did not need to sign in. All you needed was a last name and an order number.
This rather obvious security hole has existed for all of the ten years that the mint’s website has been on-line, and certainly the mint and/or its contractors have had the issue pointed out to them long ago. I suspect they did nothing to fix it because up until now, no bad had come of it.
The shipping/signature issue is another one that most likely has been noted in the past, but again since no bad had come of it, nothing was done.
As I have said in other posts, none of this is rocket science. There are plenty of working models out there for the mint to copy. They don’t have to invent anything. They just need to put a working model into practice.
With the golden dollar direct ship program, I think they are doing OK for now. They are sending us dollars at face value in an effort to get the coins circulating and hopefully pushing the paper dollar out of favor and saving us all a lot of money in the long run. If that system is working at minimal cost with minimal losses (and all of those losses are suffered by the mint/post office) I don’t think they need to change it.
The issue of collector coins is a different matter. Every effort to guarantee delivery should be made. Both buyer and seller should be able to trace shipments from end to end. The markups on most products are high enough to absorb the costs of proper shipping, and where they are not, the mint should at least offer signature service at cost to the buyer.
Clair:
there is no need to defend the dollar coin program since I was not attacking it.
I mentioned my dollar coin orders only to highlight that it seems -any- high dollar orders are being delayed.
$500 dollar coing ordered last week just arrived.
Much higher value dollar coin order placed a -week- before that one is still at the mint.
Suspected issue: the value of the order and the mint’s losses.
Another issue: lost return.
Yes, the mint signed for a return of min on Jan 9th. As of today, no one at the mint knows where the return is. BTW, it was a high dollar value return. Carelessness? Theft at the new facility? I don’t know, but they have some real issues there in Indy. {I just called and got a dispute with my cc company! what has the mint come to?!?!? It didn’t use to be this way!}
Susan, I’m very appreciative of your clear and well researched information. You are a primary source of honest, useful information… a scarcity (rarity?) in today’s ‘hyped’ coin media.
My experience, as a “hobby” collector, in dealing with the Mint has been spread over approx. the last 12 years. Without reservation, I can say my orders of the last 3-4 years, both online and phone, have been a source of frustration.
The Mint, in general, has been obtuse with their customer service and many of their problems are self-induced via conflicting, confusing information online and an earned lack of credibility with non-answers given via phone reps.
Another frequent problem is the Mint’s extremely unprofessional habit of hyping a new coin, taking your money and then showing no real concern with providing the coin in a prompt fashion and/or explaining the inevitable shipping delays.
Nearly all useful information in the Mint’s “info vacuum” policy comes from blogs like your’s… thanks again!
I have been tempted to cancel my account several times in recent months but keep waiting for their shipping,customer service and ordering procedures to “learn from mistakes” and show some credible improvement… still waiting(sigh).
I had two prosperity sets left on my doorstep recently. Good grief! I don’t know if it was UPS or USPS, but what an embarrassing way for the Mint to run a business.
I have been collecting coins for awhile, but I don’t recall ever seeing it this bad.
I note the return address on my newly received shipment begins with:
“PBGS”
not too long ago the mint changed the service provider for their online operations.
now they have move to Indy.
PBGS appears to be the people we need to be complaining about and not “the mint.” I believe the mint has outsourced fulfillment operations to PBGS and all these people we, the consumer, have been dealing with have all been PBGS employees.
That’s the bad news, but also the good news. contractors can be changed.
oops and john, and evryone else:
these are contractors who are blowing it.
in this case we have been dealing with PBGS.
It is PBGS’ fault, and the mint’s to a point for not choosing a better provider.
complain to the mint about PBGS. I have just left a message with someone at the treasury about this and hope to hear something back. Also, the treasury has an “Inspector General’s Office” who would also likely love to know about this.
Have a “Mint order” horror story?
High Value Boxes left without signature?
Long sleepy waits with lame excuses with no products shipped?
Lost returns?
Lost Shipments?
Believe it or not, the Office of the Inspector General at the REAL Treasury wants to hear from you!
e-mail them: Treasury’s Inspector General’s Office (these guys care about “waste, fraud, abuse, etc”}
e-mail to: hotline@oig.treas.gov
Please, please go for it.
For what it’s worth (don’t say it)… the Mint IS the ultimate responsible entity for their decisions.
Their website has changed the shipping date for the Lincoln commem at least twice today, the account access is still offline with no explanation and I just talked with a very nice call center gentleman, “Will”, who “just today” was told that the website account access has been down (for days) and he had no idea why or who to refer me to for further information… his most helpful comment was,”Well I guess with all the bureaucracy…”, indeed.
Information chaos without recourse… possibly a choice for the Mint’s outsourcing customer service policy.
It takes an intentional effort to be so conveniently unavailable AND oblivious to the recurrent problems at the Mint’s decision making level.
Responsibility is as rare as accessibility at the Mint… go ahead and write them a letter about ANYTHING. If you are “Joe citizen” it will be MONTHS, if ever, before you get a form letter having little or nothing to do with the issue at inquiry.
As a collector I am frustrated… as a customer I am angry they have taken my money and business for granted with their months/years of inept-ineffectiveness at the customer service level. At some point some, possibly many, folks will take their business to the secondary providers… wake up Mint dudes and do something effective instead of more institutional flagellation.
That is all, I need a beer.
I to have been confused by the U.S. Mint website. I ordered the Abraham Lincoln Silver Proof and the Uncirculated Silver coin. I have received 2 emails with two different fullfilment dates. Many of you who visit the site on a regular basis know that the backorder arrival date of these Commenmeratives has changed at lease 4 or 5 times. When I ordered the A.L. Silver proof on 02/12/09 the shipment date was feb. 27. Then it was backordered to April 01 then changed to March then back to April and now last I checked the date of backorder is 02/19/09. I never experienced anything like this from the mint before. Then add on the Lincoln Penny Distribution situation and you have a very confused Gerry.
That is confused until now. Thanks to the Discovery of About.Com Coins and Susan I have been enlightened about a great many issues. Which is why I really am writing this comment. To Thank Susan; because Susan always seems to Write the right Article at the right time. this is the second issue I have had in as many days with the mint that Susan has Cleared up for me. the first being the Lincoln Penny and now the confusion at the mint website. So my hats off to Susan and the other commentors for bringing enlightenment to my Coin collecting life.
Gerry
The whole UHR mess certainly makes one shudder thinking of what our current government brain trust will do with a Trillion $ or two of our communal debt in buying up mortgages from 1000 X the number of us fools who tried to purchase this coin.
Susan,
It is unfortunate we live in a world where some try to scam honest folks but I must say we all have many resources at our disposal to combat this. First and formost is “Common Sense” and it is all over the news, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER share any personal information with anyone. Especially on-line!!! It is not being paranoid it is being smart and safe. Second is a small investment in a PO Box or a box at a mail box service. Your mint purchases are always delivered to a responsible person, out of the elements and are locked until you pick them up and yes it is good for the post office as well, Not to mention my everyday mail is safe from those who would try to get personal info by stealing mail from the mailbox at my house. This is more common that you might think.
I have been purchasing form the mint for years and always receive my orders. The less valuable one are in the box and the most valuable I must always sign for. My box cost less than $100 a year and is indeed the best insurance I can pay for. We are in a full time war against scammers and we all need to be responsible for ourselves.
I hope by sharing this I have helped others in our hobby become safe.
God Bless America.
I think the real idiots here are the collectors who shared their informations online. We have a saying in the military, loose lips, sink ships. In the age of the internet, type it and people will read. Idiots!
I can see many people (who would not admit to it, obviously) who will just KEEP the package containing the coins, and then just say that they never received them. The mint (or UPS, FedEx, USPS, or whoever) will have to replace it or refund the money; the recipient could then have a free set, or single coin. What would happen if, when the replacement shipment arrives, it ALSO did not require a signature? A dishonest collector could, conceivably, make out like a bandit. (Pun intended.)
Let’s face it. The U. S. Mint new fulfillment center run by Pitney Bowes Government Solutions is a disaster for both the U. S Mint and collectors. Moy or whoever is responsible for this fiasco should be fired. All my gold coins are left at the door step for the taking. One morning while going out for the newspaper I found 18 First Spouse Gold coins in two boxes on the front porch. Wow, I felt lucky to get them.
Will we ever know the truth about the UHR delays? It would seem a simple press release by the Mint would end all the speculation.
The incompetency at the Mint is hurting the collector and the Mints sales. It’s time to get rid of the bureaucratic idiots and get someone with business sense to run the show.
I am the Tom whose order was canceled. I have chosen to publicize my foolishness so that this entire community will be wiser and benefit from the valuable lesson I learned. I am communicating with Ms. Headley, who eloquently described the reasoning behind my act of naivete. We are hoping that a PR stink over the release of the UHRDE will effect change in light of the lofty pomp surrounding its release.
I would also like to express my never ending frustration with 2 US Mint orders I have recently placed.
On 1/22/09 at 12:45 I placed an order for my UHR coin and have received the following dates for shipping:
Backorder: ship 1/28/09
Backorder: ship 2/17/09
Backorder: ship 2/18/09
Backorder: ship 2/20/09
My 2nd order was for the 2009 Lincoln Silver Proof, which was supposed to ship on 2/19/09.
I have checked my credit card but niether order has been processed and today is 2/20/09.
I have received no additional e-mails from the US Mint indicating any further delays of either order.
With the tracking feature being disabled I tried to call the mint and the recording said they cannot accept any phone calls at this time! What is this all about?
It appears I may never find out what is going on, except for what I read through Susan’s Blog. I really appreciate her efforts to keep all of us informed.
I forgot on my last post that they also had a 2/6/09 ship date.
I have an order pending at the Mint now.
Since the tracking site is still down as of today, Feb 20, 2009 , I called to find out the status.
At least they told me it was picked but not shipped. Then I asked why I can not track or see my order history all they said is the site is down for an unknown reason.
I then ask when will it be up, they have no clue.
There is no explanation that I can find on the site for this outage.
Communication by the Mint on this problem is very poor.
I finally was able to get through to the Mint and they indicated mine has also been picked, on the 18th, and sent to UPS for delivery.
No matter if their checks come from Pitney or the U.S. Mint they are still customer service representing the mint. They must think we are idiots and this is just a big joke to them as they never give a straight answer. Today I was told the reason that my coin was not able to ship was that the companion books they had received were warped and they couldn’t send them out with defective books! Since ordering the coin in the second hour of the 22nd have received ship date of 2/6, then on 1/27 received an email from the mint saying ship date would be 2/20, then on 2/6 another email stating ship date wold be 2/21. Waited until today to call and check because I was hoping the mint’s order history and tracking functions would be working so I could do it myself online. I had called in early January about a minor (under $20) problem on an order I had just received and the customer service person wanted to argue rather than resolve the problem so I just ate it for I didn’t feel like getting upset like she did (maybe that is what she wanted anyway), I guess what I’m trying to say here besides my wimping out is that is not the type of customer service attitude that is conducive to good business long term. Why lie? Why make up all these excuses or pass the blame, is it really a game, sanctioned and encouraged by their supervisors? If it were a real business, the joke would be on them and they would be out of business, for it really is a joke. The truth would great, tell people what is going on, give a REALISTIC shipping date, even if it is months out, instead of skipping back and forth over the calendar. To be politically correct, lets have some transparency at the mint. The shipping horror stories are true, sometimes they ring, sometimes you just find the order on the porch. If the item was shipped by USPS they do get a signature. This went on way too long. One thing for certain, I wouldn’t want to be one of those customer service people.
I noticed Coinlink has *washed* the link to this article from their site. The article was posted under Feb. 19th but now it is entirely gone. Doing the Coinlink site search reveals a Feb. 19th page with “Security Breach” clearly referenced, but upon clicking to the link it is not available. I find it strange that information like this is being *washed* and covered up. I feel like there is a lot more going on here. I wish the mint would just be honest about what is going on.
To “protect” the taxpayer the government lives in a Low Bid world. Lowest bidder equals lowest level of service
I think there were several screw-ups here! Putting personal info online is a screw-up, but so is the ability to access the mints website without a password! If I give out my personal info, that’s my fault. If the mint does not password protected my order, that’s their fault! I don’t fault the hacker, I say all involved learn from the mistakes and fix the problems!
Saying you don’t fault the hacker implies that you condone the hacker’s actions. Pretty poor attitude if you ask me. It bugs the crap out of me when people blame the victim.
Like Tom is the only one who has ever let his guard down for a moment… It’s a shame that we have to spend so much time and resource protecting ourselves from the evil-doers. But do it we must. Why… mainly because we’re too soft on these scum bags and because we don’t hold them accountable.
Incidentally, other posters who were trying to help may have inadvertently caused the dilemma by bringing awareness to what could be done with the info. Perhaps a better solution would have been to contact Susan directly instead of posting.
Same thing with the signature dilemma. We’ve basically told people how they can rip the Mint off for $1,200 so now the Mint has to take action. Most people are honest and trust-worthy – at least the ones that I hang out with are. I have no sympathy for those who are not.
Tom – I’m sorry you got burned. But thanks for sharing your plight in the hopes that it will help others prevent the same.
Dave! I have to agree with you. The havoc those hackers caused interfered with commerce. A terrorist act of upsetting trade. That might sound over board. This screw up caused by a few idiots, deserves some attention from the feds. I’m sure they have all the statutes coverd in what crimes have been commited. As Clair pointed out to me, the site to check tracking didn’t need a person to sign in. I use my order history, i have to sign in. Now that i’m thinking about it. There may be something tere to the effect that checking your order is easy, just enter a name and ID #. [Orer number] I guess that was done on the honer system. Mostly no one would share their vital information. It was to make checking more conveneint for mint customers. I think they should leave the system as is, and go after the bad guys through the treasury dept..
coiny
Interesting…
First off they need to fix the access holes on the Mints site, then rectify the shipping signature problem & then find the hacker(s) & prosecute them to the fullest extent.
They’ve got the resources to do it, so they just need to “Getter Done”.
Thanks…
Yes sir Yankee!
That’s one fine mess they’ve gotten us into!!
coiny
I thought “getter done” was a southern thing. lol j/k
Like you coiny, I always signed in and used the order history to check my status. Heck, I don’t memorize my order numbers… and I don’t feel like thumbing through documents to find them. Easier to sign in and click a button.
If this is the sole reason for turning off Order Tracking, isn’t that sort of like closing the barn door after the horse got out? The word is out… it’s not just decent people who read these blogs. I doubt others will be sharing their info any time soon. Also though, like Clair said before, the coding required to lock down the Order Tracking is not rocket science… It’s not that hard to patch.
Without trying to sound like a conspiracy theorist, there still seems like there’s something we just don’t know. But then I remind myself… this is the government we’re talking about, so maybe not. I hate to badmouth the Mint but I expect better performance from my tax dollars. And it is both our tax dollars and our product purchasing dollars that fund the organization so shouldn’t they have to answer to us to at least some degree? I guess it’s a bit early for that Freedom of Information Act thing to kick in…
I must admit though, with the mess that the government and the economy are in, all this stuff is just a little iddy biddy blip on the radar screen.
I treat it as the cost of doing business with
morons. In over ten years packages disappear,
don’t get sent, or otherwise screw up.
The 1996-S Prestige Set never showed, apparently “not ordered.” Cost much more
to replace.
A couple of 2001 Buffalo proofs were charged,
never received, and later refunded at $33.
I get my stuff at a PO Box, so I used to
think it was the USPS, which has lost others.
Recently, I ordered a proof and a UNC VanBuren
Liberty. The packing slip was right, but I
got two UNC. The telephone “customer care”
said I should ship them back. The supervisor
I requested was an answering machine.
Luckily, they graded out as MS70.
The whole game with the UHRDE applied to me
also. Early to order, nothing yet.
Just spoke with Joe at the Mint about my UHR that was ordered 1/22 6:45 PM. I asked him what the holdup was, and way the order history page was down, “told me my guess was as good as his, and that there was a shortage of blanks for gold coins”. He also said that he did not think they where going to make any Buffalo gold coins, fractional or 1oz.
Checked with the mint again today to ask more questions. They said my order was picked on the 18th last week. Today they indicated that they had to place me back into the pick again today, something went wrong last week, and it just was not my order. They also indicated they are trying to start shipping again the 24th or 25th of this month, but once again I don’t think I would bet any money on this. The customer Service agent was very nice and indicated he understood are frustration, but there is nothing he can do about it. Guess I’ll keep my fingers crossed and hope for something soon. Just keep watching your credit card for ativity.
I should also say that they just charged for the Lincoln Proof today, which was supposed to ship on the 19th. Guess this coin is also having problems.
I posted this a couple of NEXT>’s from here, but since there is activity here I will double post it.
My Lincoln dollars arrived in today’s mail. I posted scans of them over at http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?folderId=3&listMode=13&nav=messages&webtag=ab-coins.
The coins were not as well packaged as I have been accustomed to from the mint. The four coin boxes were in a larger box with just a small amount of wrinkled brown paper as filler. The coin boxes could bounce around in the outer box. This is new with PB, all previous coins were packed so that the inner boxes did not shift inside the outer packaging. Clearly costs are being minimized. Nowhere in the mint’s annual report did it say that contractor profits should be maximized at customer’s expense.
I guess I just have to gripe about something (the coins are not damaged from shipping) because I am still waiting for the charge for my UHRDE to reappear on my CC.
Anyway, the Lincoln dollars are very nice. I still wish that some sort of image could have been found to grace the reverse instead of an inscription, but one of the most enduring things about Mr. Lincoln are his words, and the words on the reverse of this coin are among his best. I am still happy that I ordered them. I will get at least one more when a set with the (hopefully copper) pennies is produced later in the year.
Well, today my charge for the Lincoln Proof disappeared from my CC, not sure why? The Mint says the order is still being processed. I know many have received it, and there is nothing wrong with my CC, so what could the problem be now?
I also saw on the link provided by Clair to the Forum that the new ship date may be April 24th for the UHRDE. Has anyone else received this new ship date? Yesterday they told me this week! The coin is still showing a ship date of 3/6/09 on there Mint website. I becoming very confused and know now it will not help calling the Mint back again.
Jim,
Was that charge on your CC an actual debit or was it just pending? Someone had said something to the effect that they learned that for high ticket items, certain CC companies will “test” your card with a pending transaction before posting the actual charge.
As for the UHRs, great news, looks like they’re going to start to ship again. Mark posted an update from the Mint on one of Susan’s other blogs.
Dave, with the card I have it always goes to pending first, now it has vaanished from pending and no charge on the card. This is the first time this has happened. Not sure why B of A does this but I did call to make the card is okay, which it is.
This is truly great news on the UHRDE. Thanks for sharing the onfo with all of us.
The Mint did say that both orders are still in process so I’ll have to go with that for now.
I know others have been told it, but no one puts a charge on your CC just to see if you have the credit. Doing so costs them money, even if they eventually rescind the hold. Almost any charge is pending for a short period. When you use your CC at a restaurant, they put a hold on the bill amount, then either put it through as is or add in the tip and charge that once you sign. The pending charge was not placed just to test your account, it was placed because they intended to ship product and should have when the CC company said the amount was good to go. Once they actually ship, they can go ahead and finalize the charge. All of this CC stuff is just more evidence of the problems at the mint.
Even their new statement on the website that they intend to resume shipping the UHRDE this week is a song. It basically claims that the only holdup has been the book. They had set up to ship the book seperately from day 1. It had its own product number and its own ship date that was often different from that of the coin. They make no mention of all of the other issues that have confounded us all.
For them to claim that they tied up $1200 of my credit for a week just to see if I was good for it, never intending to ship product is just plain bogus. It served no purpose whatsoever unless they actually intended to ship the day they placed the hold. They have to do it all over again now that they let the hold expire.
Communication, and by that I mean truthful communication is still the mint’s biggest problem. They need to learn to stop hiding
I don’t think the mint had a security breach and I don’t think they should have shut down their track order feature. Unfortunately some guys let out too much personal order information and they got burned by having their orders cancelled. This is not the mint’s fault. Now the rest of us pay the price through the inconvenience of not having the online capability to check or cancel our orders. At least identities were not stolen!
I received my ship notification today for my UHR along with another member of my family who also ordered on the first day. It has been a long time comming but at least it is on the way. Hopefully the mint will resolve the other issues that are unconvincing all of us like the order status page. It seems simple to me what to do but I am stuck with the rest of the customers. I’m sure the rest of the orders will follow for anyone reading these comments.
I have just posted a message from the mint regarding the Track Order function over in the forums at U.S. Coins, Information from the US Mint. I also posted my feelings about the message there.
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