The highly anticipated Ultra-High Relief (UHR) Saint-Gaudens will go on sale on Thursday, Jan. 22 at 12:00 noon ET. The price is expected to be $1,189.00 (assuming gold stays between $800 and $850 per ounce. At the time of this writing, gold is at $816.70.) The United States Mint's new bullion pricing charts show what the UHR will cost at various gold spot prices, with the lowest possible price being $889.00.
The U.S. Mint has issued a statement regarding its new pricing policy for coins made out of gold and platinum bullion. I rarely publish press releases in my blog, but this one is so important to our marketplace, and of such interest to my readers, that I am presenting it in its entirety:
United States Mint Changes Strategy for Pricing Precious Metals Numismatic Products
Washington – The United States Mint announced today it is implementing a new strategy for pricing numismatic products containing gold and platinum effective January 12, 2009. Non-precious metal products and bullion coins will not be affected by the new pricing strategy.
“Transparency, agility, and customer service are the catalysts for our new pricing method,” said United States Mint Deputy Director Andy Brunhart. “The volatile precious metals market prompted our customers to suggest that we re-vamp our process, and we listened.”
The United States Mint published a Federal Register notice on January 6, 2009, that included an itemized pricing structure for gold and platinum numismatic products. (This notice does not affect gold commemorative coin pricing.) Product prices will fluctuate within the new structure, which is based on a range of the average market price for gold and platinum. For gold numismatic products, the range will be within $50 and, for platinum numismatic products, the range will be within $100.
Pricing of gold and platinum numismatic products will be directly related to the average weekly London fix prices for these metals. If the market value of gold and platinum moves to a higher or lower range, the price of each product will be increased or decreased in corresponding increments. For example, if the weekly average price of gold rises to the next $50 price range, the United States Mint will increase the price of gold numismatic products by $50 for each ounce of gold in the product. Under this scenario, the price of a one-tenth ounce gold uncirculated coin would increase by $5.
Previously, the United States Mint published a Federal Register notice each time the price of a product was changed. Under the new policy, the notice will be in effect throughout 2009. It encompasses a broad band of price ranges for the metals. The United States Mint’s new pricing formula will be more responsive to changes in the market price of gold and platinum.
The pricing tables for numismatic products containing gold and platinum coins can be found at http://usmint.gov/pressroom/index.cfm?flash=yes&action=goldplat.
Looking at the pricing tables, it is clear that the collector's versions of these bullion coins are still being priced substantially above spot price (collector's versions being the ones sold on the U.S. Mint Web site, not the same coins that dealers get directly through the Mint's Authorized Purchasers program.) The mark-up per ounce of gold runs about $250 to $300 for a full-ounce coin, and much higher for fractional denominations. The mark-up on platinum averages around $240 to $340 for the full-ounce coins.
As part of the new pricing tables, the Mint disclosed how it arrives at these prices:
Note 1: The price of each gold product consists of the following components: cost of metal, cost to manufacture (including overhead) and margin. The pricing schedule is based upon a spot price of gold at $725.00 per FTO. At this spot price, the respective approximate average ranges for each component as a percentage of total price are as follows: cost of metal 66%-74%, cost to manufacture (including overhead) 11% to 19%, and margin 15%.
For platinum, the percentages are slightly different:
Note 2: The price of each platinum product consists of the following components: cost of metal, cost to manufacture (including overhead) and margin. This price schedule is based upon a spot price of platinum at $800.00 per FTO. At this spot price, the respective approximate average ranges for each component as a percentage of total price are as follows: cost of metal 71%-74%, cost to manufacture (including overhead) 11% - 14%, and margin 15%.
The Mint hasn't released any similar information regarding silver pricing thus far.
I think this is a wonderful step forward for the Mint. In the past, it would sometimes take products off sale for weeks while deciding on the new prices, and very few people outside the Mint understood the process and how the Mint arrived at its pricing. Transparency and agility are very important traits for our Mint to have in the modern, fast-paced bullion market, and it is refreshing to see the Mint taking these steps.
I still think the mark-ups are extraordinarily high, especially when you consider that Authorized Purchasers get the generic versions on these coins for a fraction of these premiums. I can't help but wonder if collectors are subsidizing the overhead for all bullion coins, because it seems hard to believe that the difference in price between producing a regular strike gold coin and a Proof or Burnished strike is upwards of $200 per coin.
What do you think of the new Mint pricing policy? Are they charging too much for the Ultra-High Relief Saint-Gaudens, with an average mark-up of about $355 per coin? Share your views in the Comments section below. Selected comments may appear in my About Coins newsletter next week.
Comments
Well i thought i was going to buy one of these but now you show that price and i’m thinking maybe too much. Also when you order a coin like this is it best to send it off to pcgs i see they have some kinda sticker talking about first release or something like that. anyone else thinking of buying one of these? susan?
Who are the authorized purchasers? It is my understanding that there are about a dozen of them.
I wonder what the US Mint’s margin is on bullion coins?
Why should the US Mint make a 15% margin on collectors, while they (probably) make significantly less on coins sold to bullion dealers?
I had planned to buy one of these coins, but will not because that premium is insane. I get all kinds of wacko’s leaving me irate messages on eBay when I want to make 5% profit!
I had ordered 3 Buffalo Celebration coin sets back when they were $968, but magically the order was canceled by the Mint when this new pricing structure was introduced and the price went up $200. The mint has lost me as a customer, I’ll wait and buy the UHR coins on eBay after the excitement dies down.
I too was going to buy one of the new gold coins until I read your article.
I did a search for Mint’s Authorized Purchasers program,on there web site and nothing came up. What are the qualification for a authorized purchaser?
Thanks
Considering the premiums that most sellers place on certified coins, why not buy from the mint. Maybe $40.00 to get a coin certified, (especially considering the kid glove service these coins get), makes a 70 worth at least 2 to 3 times the original issue price to you, but is ridiculous to me.
Remember the purpose was to give Americans the opportunity own precious metals, not exchange a $20.00 St. Gaudin for $20.00 of groceries.
Encapsulation is great for protecting items from damage, but getting a 2009 W marked gold, silver or platinum coin, {loosely applied term}, in a MS69 or 70, after a polished inspected planchette is struck, then taken with gloved hands and placed on soft fabric without any chance of contact with any other metalic item, certainly seems more conducive to a perfect grade than a real coin struck years or centuries before.
Ebay is the worst place to try and sell immediately after initial release. Buying coins isn’t a guaranteed right and to ask the tax-payers to subsidize greed from people is just wrong.
Maybe if they gave a couple of coins to everyone and set gold to $10,000 an ounce they would be happy.
The U.S. Mint doesn’t generally make this sort of information (about its Authorized Purchasers network) freely available on its Web site for some reason; I just know about the program through osmosis, I guess.
An exhaustive search of their Web site turned up this description in a press release from 2002:
…The Mint does not sell its bullion coins directly to the public but distributes them through a network of official distributors called Authorized Purchasers.
Authorized Purchasers must meet strict financial and professional criteria, which must be validated by an independent and internationally-recognized accounting firm. The minimum ordering requirement for Authorized Purchasers of the American Eagle Silver Bullion Coin is 25,000 ounces. In addition, the Authorized Purchaser must be an experienced and established market-maker in silver bullion coins, as well as provide a two-way market for the coins, have an established broad base of retail customers in which to distribute the coins and must have a tangible net worth of at least $5 million.
The press release, which contains some additional details, can be found here:
http://usmint.gov/pressroom/index.cfm?action=press_release&ID=379
I don’t know how current these requirements are, being more than 6 years old. I’ll check with the Mint’s press office and see if I can get more current information about this program. If so, I’ll post it to an FAQ page about Authorized Purchasers and include it in an upcoming newsletter.
Susan Headley
About.com Guide to Coins
ok so i broke down and bought one lol anyone else? the site was crazy and will see how long it takes, did see backordered wonder if it sold out that fast.
I bought one, which I definitely can’t afford, lol. I am not ashamed to admit that it is easily the most expensive coin I have ever bought!
It took me until 12:12 ET to finally get my order confirmation. The site was at a virtual standstill from 11:55 on, but I found that the most successful way to get through was to be patient (even for 15 minutes or more) because the pages usually eventually loaded. Clicking the reload button, or trying the page over and over again was not productive at all for me.
When I finally got my first glimpse of the actual ordering page for the UHR, the page said it would be shipped on Jan. 28. However, by the time I got an order successfully placed about 45 minutes later, the shopping cart indicated that the coin was back-ordered, with an expected ship date of Feb. 6.
I do not understand why the Mint’s eCommerce vendor can’t arrange for additional bandwidth for these high-profile coin releases! There are companies that specialize in delivering high-capacity bandwidth for short periods of time, and it would seem that the Mint’s vendor should be utilizing such a service when customer demand requires it. Doesn’t the Mint pay them to run an efficient, effective Web site?
I would be very interested to hear the ordering experiences of others regarding this coin, for a possible article later this weekend.
Susan Headley
About.com Guide to Coins
you were smart susan i kept hitting the reload page lol finally left to take the dog for a walk and when i got back the page was loaded and it was after 1 eastern time and mine says feb 06 too i also bought a set of the new half dollars, now i’m going to have to go back to work lol yes its my most expensive coin to date too, now susan will you send this coin in to be graded?
I bought mine about 5:30 central and it was almost instantaneous. I had tried at noon but just couldn’t get in. Expected delivery is mid Feb.
Good evening Ladys & Gentlemen! I really don’t know. I am not very impressed with the new saint. I recieved a broshure from the mint yesterday. I looked it over, i did not see any information about the new saint being anything other than a strickly bullion coin, no mint mark. Nowhere in my catalog did i see different. I had assumed long ago when the UHR was slated to be produced in 2000 of 9, there would also be a proof version. As well as an UNC version. Carrying the famous W mint mark of Westpoint. I have not been to the mints web site in a week or two. So i could be mistaken. Why would the mint send advertising about the UHR saint, and leave out those importent details. I’ve taken what i’ve read at face value. I will go to see what the mint is displaying on their site, about the new gold saint UHR coins. I had the gold bug bite only recently. I for one cannot see paying exorbitent prices such as those posted for this piece of gold. I was not one to be attracted to bullion coins. As of now the bullionversion is the better buy in my book. That is if i decide to own one at any price. Thinking logicly, i can buy alot more in the way of PM., by concentrating on the new Lincoln silver dollars in proof form. In the end it may turn out more interesting for me. Also can buy alot more new 09 Lincoln pennys in proof form.
No offense to any one who has bought the new saint. I just can’t see the expenditure for the UHR saint, that goes into the treasurys general fund, to help pay down the national debt.. That is rediculous. As a tax payer and coin collector. I feel highly insulted that to own proof coins purchased from our mint, i have to subsidize the government inhelping them pay down our national debt. Not at this time. I have expenditures too. I will allocate mine wisely as i peruse the mints product catalog. To make sure i get the best deal going. Good value at a fair price.
I thank you for your time!
coiny
I bought two coins yesterday..actually three, counting my sister-in-law…
I had as much trouble as everyone else. The Mint’s web site slowed to a crawl at the outset, with pages loading very slowly. But in the end, it took a grand total of 16 minutes to get my coins ordered with an expected ship date of 1/28/2009. My sister-in-law has a ship date of 2/06/2009. For her coin I was at it for about an hour…phone and Internet…before I could get her order placed.
Hi Susan,
LOL….
First, I want to thank you for your articles. I find them very informative and helpful for the small collector like me. As for the UHR-Saint-Gaudens, I started saving money last year to purchase the coin. As some of you pointed out, the website was a virtual stand still during the first hour of sale. I logged on 10 minutes before 12:00pm. As persistent and stubborn as I am, I was trying both ways: Internet and Phone order. It took me precisely 1 hr and 3 minutes to place my order, with back ordered status and shipping estimate for 2/6/09. By phone, no chance. Interestingly, I live in Baton Rouge, LA but relatives in NY city were able to purchase the coin via internet much quicker. Maybe is the distance
I am a new collector from Kuwait. I was thrilled when I learned about the UHR new coin. I bet President Teddy Rosevelt is smiling in his grave now, and saying: “I knew they will figure out a way to make it right some day”!!! I bet that this coin shall reflect tremendous appreciation for those who hold it longer than a decade or two. Gold prices are expected to reach extraordinary levels in the next 5 years, and this coin is full of gold (24 Karat is nothing to sneeze at). It depends how the US Mint treats the success of releasing this coin, and whether they will keep producing it in the next few years. I bought one and will be buying a lot of those UHR. I am sure 100 years later, one of my great grand kids will be boasting to his friends on how smart I was, while sipping his Ultra High Releif cup of tea in a resort on planet Mars. Time is the ultimate investment vehicle, it just needs lots of paicience!!!
Ok i need to know the price i bought the coin for from the us mint now if they ship the coin on feb 6th and the price is already gone up from the release date are they going to raise the price that i paid? Susan ? lol thanks
Well speaking from experience, don’t be surprised if the price you ordered at isn’t the price you pay when it ships! Trust me it won’t go down, but it could go up significantly if the precious metal markets take off in the mean time.
Last year I ordered the Silver AE’s while the price was about $18 bucks. By the time they shipped, silver had jumped quite a bit & the Burnished AE was changed to about $25 bucks each. $25 bucks each is what I was charged, because the Mint charges your credit card at the time of shipment, not at the time of ordering. Also note that silver dropped quite a bit not long after that hike, but the AE’s never dropped back in price.
I’ve also read of some reports that the Saint may not be ready for shipping for as long as 3-6 months, regardless of what they said at the time of purchase. That could change things a whole lot regarding your final cost for the Saint.
That’s it, thanks for listening…
~The Yankee~
I bought a total of 3 coins (using family members) – one for each of my children. It took me about 1 hr and 30 minutes to get all 3 coins with a shipping date of 2/6/09. My wife thought I lost my mind when she saw me with three phones, and two computers trying to place orders for UHR Saints. I am happy, though, that I was able to get 3 UHR Saints for my kids. I was surprised to see that UHR was not sold out after few days. The US Mint must have lots of blanks ready (I still remember how joyful I was after obtaining the 20th Anniversary 3-piece gold and 3-piece silver sets in 2006 – being sold out so fast). I wonder what is the final mintage number for the UHR Saints. Susan, the US Mint didn’t give you the approximate mintage for UHR?
i just got this email this morning bummer UH1 Qty: 1 Exp Ship: 2/20/09
2009 ULTRA HIGH RELIEF GOLD COIN
Item: UH3 Qty: 1 Exp Ship: 2/20/09
2009 ULTRA HIGH RELIEF GOLD COIN BOOK
For those of you who are planning to buy more of the UHR 2009, buy the First Strike MS70, b/c this is the one that will most likely increase in value. I have three UHR 2009. One is slabbed First Strike MS70. This one was struck when the die was still brand new and sharp, so the images are very crisp and proof-like. The U.S. Mint has already struck over 53,000 coins. The die must be eroded by now, so my other two coins have more frosty dull images. If you keep buying more uncertified coins, all you will be doing is increasing the mintage and lowering the value of this coin in the future.