The Ethics of Numismatic Journalism
Tuesday July 15, 2008
In a recent "Coin Dealer Ethics" column, I brought up the subject of numismatic (coin collecting related) discussion forums, and whether the moderators of such forums were impinging on free speech rights when they selectively deleted their users' messages. This generated some interesting opinions, many of which were recapped in my follow-up. Now, a fascinating blogger who is new to the online numismatic journalistic community has weighed in with his views on the ethics of coin discussion forums, which I think are well worth your time to read. But first, a bit of an introduction about him.
I first noticed the Coingrader blog when its author linked to one of my articles a week or so ago. I was immediately impressed with the unusually high quality of the writing, but I was reluctant to point out his blog, or add it to my blogroll, because I have seen a number of really promising bloggers emerge who do a few weeks' worth of intelligent and insightful posts and then vanish into the ether again. The Coingrader author, (who apparently wants to remain anonymous, since he hasn't identified himself,) is a professor of journalism and communications at an important Midwestern university, in addition to holding a leadership position at the University's school of journalism. He has published a slew of textbooks and academic articles about journalistic ethics, and interestingly, doesn't think much of bloggers or the media outlets who hire them at the expense of properly-trained journalists. What makes him interesting to me is that he is a kindred spirit, another independent voice in the numismatic community who is interested in drawing attention to the injustices and ridiculousness he sees. He has similar interests to mine - a disdain for the abuses of the major grading services, a collection of doubled die coins, and he sees the danger in collecting the slab rather than the coin itself. I think that people who enjoy reading my scribblings will also enjoy his.
One of the main features of the new Coingrader blog will be a regular report called "Ridiculous Registry Buys," where he will point out the noteworthy wastes of money that the deep-pocketed (but not very sensible) registry set competitors sometimes engender with their frenzied bidding over grade rarities. The Coingrader envisions his blog as a forum where people can anonymously share their views about topics ranging from grading service mistakes to the latest "registry buy" absurdity. Coingrader's writings are peppered with clever insights such as this one about registry set competitors:
I first noticed the Coingrader blog when its author linked to one of my articles a week or so ago. I was immediately impressed with the unusually high quality of the writing, but I was reluctant to point out his blog, or add it to my blogroll, because I have seen a number of really promising bloggers emerge who do a few weeks' worth of intelligent and insightful posts and then vanish into the ether again. The Coingrader author, (who apparently wants to remain anonymous, since he hasn't identified himself,) is a professor of journalism and communications at an important Midwestern university, in addition to holding a leadership position at the University's school of journalism. He has published a slew of textbooks and academic articles about journalistic ethics, and interestingly, doesn't think much of bloggers or the media outlets who hire them at the expense of properly-trained journalists. What makes him interesting to me is that he is a kindred spirit, another independent voice in the numismatic community who is interested in drawing attention to the injustices and ridiculousness he sees. He has similar interests to mine - a disdain for the abuses of the major grading services, a collection of doubled die coins, and he sees the danger in collecting the slab rather than the coin itself. I think that people who enjoy reading my scribblings will also enjoy his.
One of the main features of the new Coingrader blog will be a regular report called "Ridiculous Registry Buys," where he will point out the noteworthy wastes of money that the deep-pocketed (but not very sensible) registry set competitors sometimes engender with their frenzied bidding over grade rarities. The Coingrader envisions his blog as a forum where people can anonymously share their views about topics ranging from grading service mistakes to the latest "registry buy" absurdity. Coingrader's writings are peppered with clever insights such as this one about registry set competitors:
Combine mostly male online collectors with credit cards comparing their sets to see who is biggest and best, and you have what I call “Freudian numismatics.”Take a moment to check out Congrader's new blog, and then share your opinion of his ideas in the Comments section below.
Comments
Thanks for the link to this site. Seems good so far.
Your pal, db
PS - notice how he didn’t link to the other site like you did?
Yes, dbtuner, I did notice that he didn’t link to the other site.
Did you notice his reason?
(For those wondering what this little exchange is about, we’re referring to the Coingrader blogger not linking directly to the photo of the CU forums moderator referred to in the Numismatic Forums Discussion Ethics column linked to in the post above.)
Susan Headley
About.com Guide to Coins
If I’m ever in your area, we’ll have to have a drink. I’ll even buy
The photo I posted of the CU forum moderator was filched from ksteeheader of the popforum, the last remenant of the original PCGS open forum.
Now in no way can my posting be construed as illegal or unethical. The laws on parody are well defined and protected by the courts.
The moderator is basically attractive and her photo obviously not posted to make her appear as someone else.
It was the message associated with the photo that was the message. “NO SOUP FOR YOU.”
This is an obvious spin off of the Seinfeld “Soup Nazi.” Elaine had questioned some of the Soup Nazi’s soup preparations and he became inflamed and said those famous words. “No soup for you.”
Now consider the parody. The soup is extremely popular as is PCGS. But the Soup Nazi will not accept any suggestion of criticism, and Elaine was banned from buying soup for all time. No forgiveness allowed.
Same thing on PCGS/CU forum. You can be banned for just about anything but others can say and do just about anything they want.
So what are the rules for bannishment? The Soup Nazi said it best. It’s whatever I please.
BB
BTW the photo is down now. Time for a change of pace but this fall it will be back.
that’s funny Rob, cause when I posted a picture of you on the yahoo forum, you called the yahoo cops. I still can post. Would you like me to post your name, address, phone #, email account, birth date, and legal proceedings against you again? No, I would guess you would call the yahoo cops again.
I didn’t like it when you posted a picture of me (not me actually) with a gun pointed towards it. When I found out that you had threatened to kill a DA in the state of WA, that kind of hit home.
I am sure the CU admin, whatever her name is, it escapes me now, didn’t care for her picture being out there. There are alot of nuts out there. And you is one of em.
Just for the record. There is not any relevant element of truth in anything dbturner has just stated.
My denial is made. If Susan, as moderator, decides to leave up Db’s post, or remove it, then it is her call and a reflection upon the integrity of her blog.
Db’s allegations kind of calls the OP’s original question into play.
Thank you, BB.
Exactly what are you disputing? That you posted a picture of a woman in the hopes some one would bump her off exacting your ‘revenge’ or that you had a gun pointed to my head on your web site?
Or was it that there is another guy, your exact age, in your state and town, with the same name, who was fired from his job, sued, and then threatened to kill the DA and a witness? Amazing coincidence. Or are you just disputing that you threatened anyone? Because you threatened me, you threatened the CU moderator as well. It seems threats and you go hand and hand.
susan, I know you know your way around a computer and are able to find out stuff. So why don’t you just do that? Or do you want to align yourself with the guy who DID the above stuff by taking his word. A call to the Forks WA police dept can verify the above.
Since you already linked to his site encouraging him and delete all posts about your past, I know where you stand on this issue. Some people DON’T change
here is a an idea for another topic since you used my last idea and got alot of feedback. Do a thread on if YOU would be held accountable if some nut DID bump off the CU moderator and they were able to trace a path back to your linking her picture from YOUR site. Would YOU be held liable? Legally, maybe not. Morally, without question.
If I was her family, I would sue the living crap out of the NYT. They’d let you go and your blog career as you know it, would be over.
Think on that. There are alot of nuts out there. good night
susan,
Another interesting fact is that the ‘journalist’ on that other site is registered to SEGS. A competitor of PCGS. Oh how interesting.
http://www.who.is/whois-com/ip-address/coingrader.com/
susan,
The question is now out there, are you an objective journalist or someone with an ax to grind with CLCT and PCGS? You covort with someone who has made threats to the WA state DA and is openly against PCGS and now you covort with a direct competitor of PGCS.
Funny that you failed to mention that coingarder.com was owned by SEGS.
I notice he had an article bashing Teletrade as well and promoting Heritage. Funny, Heritage sells SEGS coins, but Teletrade doesn’t. Shameless bias? Escala and CLCT should get that site torn down.
dbturner:
There is, ah, a difference between coingrader.COM and coingrader.NET.
Journalists, by the way, catch these things as do numismatists with a keen eye for double dies.
Coingrader
and your site is a ‘com’ site as is the one owned by SEGS. You were outed you shameless hack. Business at SEGS must be pretty tough.
Nice try though.
http://www.interpersonal-divide.org/miscellaneous/author.html
the owner of coingrader.net
About the Author
Michael Bugeja directs the Greenlee School of Journalism and Communication at Iowa State University. He is the author of 20 books, including Living Ethics Across Media Platforms, and writes for The Chronicle of Higher Education, Inside Higher Ed and The Quill. He contributes comments about ethics and technology to The New York Times, USA Today, Associated Press, Christian Science Monitor, The Futurist, The Economist, Columbia Journalism Review, American Journalism Review, Editor & Publisher and other publications.
either way, you’ve been outed. And I didn’t have to sleep with anyone to do it. Thanks to leading me to you though. That took all of what, 20 minutes?
That’s the difference between a trap and bait.
Susan,
In your article you mentioned my skepticism about blogging. dbturner’s last post as well as a few others here are indicative of the lack of ethics lapsing soon into legality as his last post not only is false but maligning.
This is why I have strict comment rules on my site, to prevent this nonsense.
A proper response by dbturner would have been an apology for disseminating a falsehood and admitting that he made a common mistake mistaking a “com” for a “net.”
This is the same type of mistake that bidders do at online auctions, too eager to see what really isn’t there in a coin and pressing a button before they realize their mistake.
I mention this to pivot the conversation back to coins, which your blog continues to cover perhaps better than anyone else.
Coingrader
I see dbtuner was hitting on you Susan.
(3) dbtuner says:
If I’m ever in your area, we’ll have to have a drink. I’ll even buy
With a charmer like DB who would not be thrilled at the opportunity? Sort of like dinner with Jim Halpern or David Hall.
The reason he didn’t offer to buy dinner is that he provides all the garbage he can cram down your ear. He brings that with him. Hence, I suggest you require he buy you at least 1/2 dozen drinks so you can survive his verbal onslaught.
Problem with all the supposed identity info about me is he has a lot of people mixed up with other people and he doesn’t talk nice about any of them.
BB
fine, if you aren’t the SEGS guys, apology to SEGS and to you Michael.
Ok Dr Bugeja? And if you aren’t Mike Bugeja, then you owe him an apology.
In the end, the info is out there. That’s all the guys like me and BB want anyway. Right Rob?
As a shareholder in a public corporation, I have the right to know who is making public, derogatory remarks about companies I own. Congress has taken a new stance against derogatory rumors and naked short sellers. There are after all, SEC rules.
As a writer to major publications like the NYT (which seems to have no morals in this regard) should you not publically say who you are when you write disparging public remarks about public companies. You disparaged 2 public companies recently, ESCL and CLCT. All in your first couple of weeks.
dbturner:
Can you just please give yourself a moment to breathe before making snap judgments. I even include my blog address in the signature file of my personal email, which carries this saying:
The absence of transparency
Implies the presence of incompetence
The reason I wasn’t using my name relates again to the topic of Susan’s post: journalism numismatics.
I’m an ethicist and an officer at a state university, as well as being a well-known researcher and writer. I didn’t want my name or institution associated with a personal blog, for a lot of reasons.
I wanted to enjoy coins without the baggage of my responsibilities and easily recognizable name. I also wanted to save others from the mistakes that I have made, plenty of them, over the years.
Susan is one of the few numismatists who does share a passion for truth, as do I.
To others reading this, I will continue to blog as Coingrader rather than Michael Bugeja, but I am disappointed that my passion for coins now will be associated with my research at an institution of science and technology.
And the risk is this: Being an ethicist, I will have to take down my blog if it causes a conflict with my duties to the state of Iowa. I often criticize the media as I did in one post, “Who is Monitoring the Coin Industry?” That’s how easily a conflict of interest can arise, especially since my students take internships at media outlets and we rely on them for scholarships, etc.
I’m sorry this happened, Susan, on your blog, which remains one of the best.
Michael (aka Coingrader) Bugeja
Don’t worry. I’m sure these posts will all be redacted in short order.
So here is a philosophy question for all including the Dr.
If a tree falls in a forest, and the forest is clear cut before anyone can even hear the tree, did the tree make a sound and did it even exist?
I wonder what ‘famous’ person will show up here next. Maureen Dowd?
dbturner:
Again, your lapsing into legal action using the word disparging without understanding media law as well as ethics.
Again you’re showing how easily your mind is influencing your fingers: I do not write for publications like the NYT. My research is covered by the NYT. Those are publications that have interviewed me about scenarious happening ironically here on a coin blog, for Pete’s sake.
My research is about the personal damage done to others when computer technology is instant and we rely on it for our view of the world, making snap judgments so quickly that we miss the particulars, especially the facts.
Interpersonal Divide’s lesson is simple: Remember why you bought the technology, and then ascertain why you are using it. If you discern a big difference, then you are not using the technology, the technology is using you.
That relates to coin blogs. Remember why we visited a blog such as Susan’s and then ascertain how we are using it.
Please take a breath and discuss coins or else and consider yet another apology.
I’ll sign off now, because my presence is doing precisely what I didn’t desire in the first place, and that is detracting from news about coins that we cannot get anywhere else, but in a few blogs, especially Susan’s.
Michael (aka Coingrader) Bugeja
OK. Last comment on the tree in the forest, and for this, I thank dbturner, because I have an answer found on page 82 of Interpersonal Divide:
Communication defies physical laws. Consider the saying, “If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, does that tree actually make a sound?” The answer is decidedly no. The tree makes a sound wave of certain frequency emanating around the severed trunk. Sound requires ears (human or animal) able to pick up that frequency in the vicinity. There is another scenario, however. A tree that falls without anyone witnessing it also makes a sound if technology has been placed there to record the event. In that case, people listening to the recording can say assuredly that falling timber produces sound, even if no one was at the site to hear it. A person is at two places at the same time—violating physics.
* * *
So let’s leave it there–violating physics rather than ethics.
Happy numismatics to all.
then you should change your bio on your site. It says: He contributes comments about ethics and technology to The New York Times, USA Today, Associated Press, Christian Science Monitor, The Futurist, The Economist, Columbia Journalism Review, American Journalism Review, Editor & Publisher and other publications.
Maybe it should read, his thoughts have been quoted by the NYT…
So would you and Susan like the coin market to go back to the days of no slabs where any sleazy dealer could say the coin was any grade they wanted? I sure would not. I would give up collecting in a second.
Also, what’s next? We have slabs with stickers. Is the next thing a plastic baggie with a sticker to put the slabbed, stickered coin in?
I would rather see fractional grades
And re the tree. I disagree. God always hears everything so a sound was made.
dbtunr, first off you are wrong as usual about everything you post. Maybe you can check with your mommy next time so you don’t make a fool of yourself. The definition of sound requires 3 things, a transmitter, a medium and a receiver. If any of these are missing then technically there is no sound. However there are sound waves.
Second, you are attacking people all over the web and no one likes you. Your reputation is dirt so quit picking fights unless you want to pick on me. That I would love!
so what is the common motivation between Zornes (BB), Headley, and Bugeja (coingrader)? BB links his site, Susan linked BB’s site and Bugeja’s. Bugeja took the high road and didn’t link anyone but plugged his books and web site and his title and work.
Is it to see the PCGS CU torn down so that traffic on their web sites increases? Or are they just Koombaya singing altruists who love shiny little objects?
Are there sleazy aspects of the coin business? Without question. But with the demise of capitalism near in this country, I think there are more compelling ethics discussions.
How about, why are capital gains privatized but losses socialized? And why are only the losses of the really big players covered but the little guy has to lose his life savings in a bank because he ignored the $100,000 limit? Put out a cogent thread on that and you won’t get a crapy 1000 hits, you’ll get a million.
Karma - I’m scared. You won’t get Zornes to kill me will you?
Back to the original post on ethics, when I watch TV these days all the stock analysts are required to put out a disclaimer on their position that they are talking about. So if they are short and bash a sock, you know they are just trying to push the stock lower.
Why are journalists (ie the 3 amigos) not required to do the same? If you are short CLCT state it. If you would derive more income by seeing their coin forum go away, state that as well. If Heritage is paying you to trash Teletrade, state that. After all, isn’t that ethical?
Maybe I don’t understand journalistic freedom and parody and all that, but why are there rules for me, but not you?
dbturner says: “Maybe I don’t understand journalistic freedom and parody and all that, but why are there rules for me, but not you?”
Db, you weren’t nice to your teddy bear like we were. Well maybe Susan had a dollie. You stabbed yours and tried to cut it’s heart out. But then you found out it was only a little wire spring inside and not a real heart after all.
But humans are different than teddy bears, db. They like to be treated with respect, even if you disagree with their opinion.
Remember all those nasty names you called Laura Legend on the Yahoo site circa January 2008. She was trying to be nice but you stabbed her with hate filled filth and name calling.
She didn’t deserve that db. She has a real heart, not the little tiny metal spring heart like your teddy bear had.
But if you be nice then most others will nice in return. Try it. It’s not exactly like a tree falling in the forest but well . . it might be more relevant.
BB
I don’t have any website to promote and I for the most part enjoy the CU but I have been there for a long time and there are a lot of issues at the CU that are troubling and they are not being addressed. I am seeing a lot of fellow posters there moving on to other forums where there are less attacks. Since I know you are a fellow CU member and you are mean and nasty on other forums, I suspect you are one of the troublemakers on the CU.
My post above is to dbtunr.
You mean the same person who had to make a humiliating public apology on her web site to PCGS and leave it up there for 6 months?
That’s the problem with ethics. Everyone wants the other guy to be ethical but they have no bounds. Some would call that hypocrisy.
Have I made mistakes? Yes. Have I posted things I wished I didn’t? No question. We are human and we are fallible.
Dr Bugeja was quoted in USA Today that blogging web sites should make bloggers use their real names so he goes and sets up an entire blog site under an alias and bashes public companies. I guess it depends on what the definition of ‘real’ is.
I ask again, is this what Rome felt like in its final days?
And more to the point, who is monitoring the supposed monitorers?
to karma
I don’t post there, I scan the headlines and maybe read 1 out of 1000 topics. I buy certified bullion just above melt. I could care less about die variations, cracks, errors, etc. As a shareholder, I would shut it down. They lose money on it and gain ill will.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetlife/2007-07-30-cruel-web_N.htm
Do as I say not as I do? Ethics, shmethics
>>> snip
“The Sacramento Bee recently decided to do away with anonymous comments and requires readers to use their real names.
Michael Bugeja, director of the Greenlee School of Journalism and Communication at Iowa State University, says that is the least newspapers should do. “If you want enlightened conversations on your site, people have to use their real names,” he says, adding that news sites also should clearly differentiate comments from stories. “
dbtuner:
It’s time for a legal as well as ethics lesson.
First, you made a false accusation (comments 9 and 10) that has the potential to harm my reputation, especially since I’m an ethicist. But so far so good, as I wasn’t yet identified.
I pointed out your mistake (comment 12), which constituted “neglect.” You identified me (comment 13) and then showed “malice” (comment 14). You apologized (comment 17), which constituted “admission.”
I explained the reason for my anonymity (comment 19). I warn you about legality in comment 20, but you persist.
You provide the link to “Interpersonal Divide” in your so-called outing of me, and when I reference it in answer to one of your questions to me about trees falling in the forest, you accuse me of hawking books (comment 26).
You seem not to understand the ethics and fiduciary responsibilities of journalists reporting on stocks instead of coins. (For the record I do not hold any stocks or interest in any coin or media company or any other company related in any way to what I do for a living as teacher, researcher and writer.)
Finally, you misquote me yet again (comment 31) by citing the USA Today story. Let me provide the link, for two reasons:
1. To correct the record. I did not say that blogging Web sites should be anonymous and that bloggers should use their real names. This is a story about newspapers allowing anonymous comments on their Web sites underneath news items.
2. You can learn something. The USA Today article speaks about rudeness and other unacceptable behaviors on the Web in any forum that seeks to engage others in enolghtened discussion, as Susan has attempted to do in so many forums and posts.
Here’s the link:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetlife/2007-07-30-cruel-web_N.htm
Now, dbtuner, I have tried several times to stop you from yourself and to pivot the discussion back to coins.
I hope if you refer to anyone else today, online or in person, that you will give them the respect and benefit of the doubt that may be due them, without immediately thinking ill of someone.
I would bet that we and others here hold many of the same opinions about coins and important issues of the day. But there are real people behind these posts, and I am the only one who has been identified, acknowledged who I am and what I do in a blog that just began a few days ago … and yet is proving prophetic as per what my research says about the incivility of Web discourse (which is why so many coin magazines do not sponsor blogs, and this chain will give them more reason not to, because the monitoring of discussion is too risky, legally and ethically.)
So I would appreciate it if you would just honor what you agreed to when you clicked that button that allows you to post your thoughts on Susan’s site and be more generous in your depictions of others.
And I hope that others reading this realize that we need as many informed voices about coins as possible because so many of us, especially me, find joy and pleasure rather than profit and investment in the history, culture and education that attracts so many to numismatics.
Michael Bugeja
Coingrader:
I do have a question I would appreciate your opinion on. I will use the PCGS/CU forum for the example but it could be NGC just as well.
1. Members only can post.
2. But the public at large can read every post.
3. Now if member “A” gets banned from posting and members XYZ take turns lambasting “A”, including making libelous statements that are untrue, what recourse does “A” have since he has been banned and can not make a rebuttal? (Besides filing a lawsuit?)
4. Given the above, would it appear to be unethical or illegal for A to start his own web site in order to defend himself and point out the culprits “XYZ”
5. And if it turned out that PCGS helped encourage and facilitate the actions of “XYZ” against “A” would they not potentially be liable for proven business losses and defamation of character damages.
BB - Case in point
show me where I say this:
1. To correct the record. I did not say that blogging Web sites should be anonymous and that bloggers should use their real names. This is a story about newspapers allowing anonymous comments on their Web sites underneath news items.
what I did say was you started an anonymous blog about public companies and had been previously quoted in USA Today where you stated posters on blogs should use their real names. That I believe in my opinion, is hypocritical and un-ethical. All coming from an ethics guy. The media has completed failed us, the public. The clowns are running the circus. Bernanke, another Professor, should have stayed at Princeton. Sell your books, teach your classes, maybe you are good at that.
if you desire to make this a legal thing. Do it. I would be glad to write the Dean at IA about your writings. Maybe I should write O’Reilly on Fox. I would love to get into financial forensics with you to see if there were any payments of any kind from anyone you disparaged or applauded. If you ever even took a stick of gum from Heritage, then you are guilty.
I’m done with you. Your blog and replying. You aren’t worth the time.
Welcome to America. Leave your ethics at the border cause ethics are for the other guy, not for you.
Coingrader . . I would still like my question answered if you have time.
Even if dbtunr doesn’t appreciate your effort I do.
Thank you in advance - BB
BB - if you started a web site and made fun of the people who were attacking you, that would be one thing. But you attacked the officers of a public company. You did a fake interview with a Director. You put the faces of the CEO and the director on people making fake coins and slabs with photoshop. Those pictures were linked here by Susan as well.
You pointed guns at people and said you would get them. You chatted with your banned buddies and talked about bumping people off.
then you make up fake stories about the public company about them losing their largest customer and how insiders are selling. I am frankly amazed they haven’t gone after you like they did with your buddy who was forced to write the apology on her web site.
Where does parody end and malicious libel of a public company start?
And then we learn, that you had previously threatened to kill the DA in WA and a witness with a gun. I know, that wasn’t you. Just someone with your name, your age, living in the same town and state.
And yet, here I am, the shareholder of the public company and I am made to be the “bad” guy by all these ‘journalists’ who are seemingly teaming up and cross linking each others web site.
You have never defended one of these things BB. Because you can’t.
db . . defending allegations hurled by you is a full time job.
It is humorous that when David Hall made a personal appearance on the PCGS/CU forum denying the interview that virtually all the members posted in mirth making fun of David for his ruse into gauging whether they believed the interview or not.
Of course no one believed it, except dbtunr. And the truth of it is you never read it the first time around. It was both a parody and satire. Well protected legal rights. Malice was never the issue and many posters expressed that they saw the fun of it all and enjoyed it.
Oh well, life would be boring without humor. It would be nice if you could try to see the humor in it all.
BB
Hi,
I understand this is the meeting place for all the banned members of the PCGS forums.
I was banned 5 months ago and look forward to bashing PCGS with everyone else here!
I’m thankful that there’s now a meeting place for us!
BB,
Just to clear it all up, are you saying that you never got charged with making threats to that DA and other people in WA after you got fired?
Is the public info that db pulled up wrong or are you saying it was just a guy with your same name that lived in your town? The info IS out there with your name on it.
Confused
db is a total idiot. Everything he posts is a lie and total BS. I see him all over the web spreading hate and misinformation. He likes to pretend he’s someone important but in reality he is a pimply-faced school boy. No one likes him, just ignore him.
Bluemoon
Hmmmm. Are you a waite.steve alt?
Ironic, but I publically supported DA “Dan Clem” in an election and never had a bad word with him.
I have tried many civil cases in the Superior courts and two in the Appellate courts but they mostly involved real estate matters and civil torts and none involved the Sheriff’s or DA’s office excepting to obtain or serve suboenas.
According to dbtunr I live in an old beat up trailer with my dog spot in a small rural town named Forks. (Known for it’s vampires.)
Since everything and anything that can be used against you will be used against you on these forums it’s best not to say more.
But if you think this is the refuge for banned CU members then I believe you are wrong. It’s the topic about forum ethics, in this case forums associated with coin collecting, that have drawn attention to the public that PCGS coin forum is run amuck.
BB
BTW . . I lived above the Bluemoon Tavern in San Francisco in 1967.
karmapunk
State the lies. List them. What hate are you referring to? It’s easy to lay a claim against someone with no backup. Post a link and a cross link to back up your claim.
Interesting discussion going on the CLCT yahoo board. In short, Congress is now getting actively involved to curtail short sellers, re-instate the uptick rule, and enforce naked short selling particuarly against financial companies because the reputation of those companies is their biggest asset.
Is not the reputation of the TPG’s their biggest asset?
The registration of your web site says you live in the Forks Trailer Park. Are you saying that address is fake and you lied on a public document? And then used that web site to tarnish the image of a public company and its officers?
Are you saying your name on the web site registration is also not Rob Zornes and that name is someone else? Because TwoCows, also a public company, hosts that web site. Do I need to go after them for not verifying their documents and allowing threats of people to go anonymous?
So which illegal act have you done? Threatened public officials or lied on public documents?
http://whois.domaintools.com/biddlesbank.com
Here is that public registration.
this is a great site susan. Charles Manson could post something from prison and you could repeatedly link to it and talk up his site.
I’m done here. I no longer wish to read anything on this site or contribute or detract in any with the the author’s views whatever they are as I just don’t agree with them.
“(48) dbtuner says:
I’m done here. I no longer wish to read anything on this site or contribute or detract in any with the the author’s views whatever they are as I just don’t agree with them.”
You see, prayer does work.
First, I do not see what difference it makes knowing who the writer is. If there was a legal issue regarding his disparaging remarks about a public company, report it to the SEC and let them decide if there is a case.
Second, dbturner (and to a lesser extent BB), thou protests too much. What are you hiding? Why does it matter who coingrader is or says? If you don’t like it, don’t read it! What harm is he really doing to you?
Finally, dbturner, your attempt at substance shows a narrow point of view. Your reasoning is not balanced (#36 and 38) and show little journalistic qualities. You have strayed way off point and are bordering on cyberstalking.
It may be time for yourse guys to stand down and think about what you are saying before continuing.
BTW… if you want a less controversial coin-related blog, check out the Coin Collector’s Blog. It’s whatever is on my mind or whatever I am thinking. I also allow comments–I just screen them for spam. So come join me. But don’t stop reading Susan–I do!!
Hey Scott
I see where you got 4 comments in the last month on your non controversial site. I only read one comment though because I didn’t want to take the time to wade through the other 3. Anyway the comment said “Hi,” in case you missed it.
BTW . . I merely asked Coingrader a question, and showed no disrespect at all. So I don’t know where you get off throwing my name in the mix with dbtuner.
Maybe you are looking for some attention? If so liven your site up a little. Ask dbtunr over. He can get the place hopping in no time.
BB… people comment when they want. Sometimes, they send private comments because they do not want their name of comment made public. I write what I want. If you don’t want to read it, don’t. I just invited everyone over. That’s it!
As for my comment saying “and to a lesser extent BB,” I was referring to #43 regarding the courts. If you are an attorney, which you imply bu this note, you should understand the term “lesser extent” does not put you in the same category but getting close–IMHO, of course.
So what’s so wrong about personal promotion? I am not making money from it, so what difference does it make? It’s that attitude why I added the term “lesser extent.” Stop trying to be insulting and just let it be.
A most extrordinary thread. I came to see comments on what sounded like a worthwhile web site, only to see dbtuner launch an attack in what seems to be a personal vendetta against BB and Coingrader. I am still not sure for what purpose.
One can only wonder what horrible crimes these people committed to elicit such a hateful response.
I, for one, hope dbtuner holds true to his word and is done with this site so that discussions can return to a more civil tone and the content returns to the subject of coin collecting.
dbtunr’s attacks are not limited to this site so this endless attack on BB has been going on for some time. I have repeatedly renounced his vile lies and exposed him for the mean-spirited person he is. He and another poster gillman17 have attacked Susan endlessly with nasty, vulgar posts on the web and I am very happy to see that he has left. I hope that Susan will consider banning him as you can see how an interesting thread got ugly as soon as db showed up.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I hear there are interesting discussions concerning just about every aspect of coin collecting imaginable. Is that true?
Well, I’m optimistic, so here goes: Would anyone purchase an MS/PR 70 2008 Silver Eagle? Why? Why not? If yes, would you purchase a PCGS over other certification services? Why or Why not?
Conversations HERE, by the way.
I think you should and PCGS is the very best for Bullion coins as NGC 70s are more like PCGS 69s. IMHO
I think so if the price is right. PCGS is much better than NGC for bullion coins as NGC 70s are more like OCGS 70s. IMHO
Vlad was here!