PCGS Warns Against Fake Slabs
Friday March 28, 2008
PCGS has issued a warning regarding counterfeit slabs which are being produced in China. The problem is so bad that PCGS is calling for eBay to ban all Chinese sellers who sell rare coins. Currently, virtually all of the Chinese-made fake PCGS slabs also have fake coins in them, but PCGS expects that this will change eventually. When it does, they expect to see genuine coins being given inflated grades or unearned designations such as Full Bell Lines or Prooflike. PCGS warns that the certification numbers on the fake slabs will almost always check out okay, since the criminals have become smart enough to use genuine certification codes now.
PCGS published a partial list of some of the most commonly seen fakes to give people an idea of what sorts of counterfeit coins are being sold by the Chinese sellers. The list can be found near the bottom of the PCGS news release about the fake slabs. The release also provides a few tips for avoiding becoming a victim of this fraud, including the common-sense standbys such as know who your seller is and whether you have any recourse for bad transactions, check the seller's feedback, don't buy from people in China, always pay with a credit card, and if the deal seems too good to be true, it probably is.
The counterfeit PCGS slabs look very much like the genuine PCGS slabs, with only small differences to tell them apart. Unfortunately, unlike its competitor NGC, who also warned about fake NGC slabs recently, PCGS does not provide the details that would enable you or I to authenticate our own slabs. Hopefully they will change their policy and make this information freely available. After all, they're only hurting the honest public by withholding such details, since the criminals already know what the fake slabs look like!
One thing that sort of irritated me in the PCGS news release was their claim that this matter was first brought to their attention by "alert members of the PCGS message boards." In fact, the eBay watchdog group and forum community Coin Forgery eBay, (known as the "CFe,") was discussing these fake slabs long before PCGS allowed any of the related messages to go undeleted on their message boards. PCGS is widely known to be very aggressive censors of its message boards, frequently deleting messages that make PCGS look bad or espouse philosophies that they (or their moderators) disagree with. In fact, a Web site called BiddlesBank.com was formed as the rallying point against the PCGS message boards when top coin dealer Laura Sperber (Legend Numismatics) was apparently banned from the boards for expressing opinions PCGS didn't like. Right now, BiddlesBank is showing side-by-side photos of a genuine and a fake PCGS slab, along with photos of an illegal Chinese coin counterfeiting operation, including photos of the coin press being used and the counterfeit dies themselves! Unfortunately, the anonymous owner of BiddlesBank changes his content frequently, so I hope it is still there when you go to look. (Note: BiddlesBank refers to the PCGS discussion forums as the "CU forum." CU stands for Collectors Universe, which is the parent company of PCGS, and technically the proper name for what most people (including PCGS itself) simply call the "PCGS message boards.")
PCGS published a partial list of some of the most commonly seen fakes to give people an idea of what sorts of counterfeit coins are being sold by the Chinese sellers. The list can be found near the bottom of the PCGS news release about the fake slabs. The release also provides a few tips for avoiding becoming a victim of this fraud, including the common-sense standbys such as know who your seller is and whether you have any recourse for bad transactions, check the seller's feedback, don't buy from people in China, always pay with a credit card, and if the deal seems too good to be true, it probably is.
The counterfeit PCGS slabs look very much like the genuine PCGS slabs, with only small differences to tell them apart. Unfortunately, unlike its competitor NGC, who also warned about fake NGC slabs recently, PCGS does not provide the details that would enable you or I to authenticate our own slabs. Hopefully they will change their policy and make this information freely available. After all, they're only hurting the honest public by withholding such details, since the criminals already know what the fake slabs look like!
One thing that sort of irritated me in the PCGS news release was their claim that this matter was first brought to their attention by "alert members of the PCGS message boards." In fact, the eBay watchdog group and forum community Coin Forgery eBay, (known as the "CFe,") was discussing these fake slabs long before PCGS allowed any of the related messages to go undeleted on their message boards. PCGS is widely known to be very aggressive censors of its message boards, frequently deleting messages that make PCGS look bad or espouse philosophies that they (or their moderators) disagree with. In fact, a Web site called BiddlesBank.com was formed as the rallying point against the PCGS message boards when top coin dealer Laura Sperber (Legend Numismatics) was apparently banned from the boards for expressing opinions PCGS didn't like. Right now, BiddlesBank is showing side-by-side photos of a genuine and a fake PCGS slab, along with photos of an illegal Chinese coin counterfeiting operation, including photos of the coin press being used and the counterfeit dies themselves! Unfortunately, the anonymous owner of BiddlesBank changes his content frequently, so I hope it is still there when you go to look. (Note: BiddlesBank refers to the PCGS discussion forums as the "CU forum." CU stands for Collectors Universe, which is the parent company of PCGS, and technically the proper name for what most people (including PCGS itself) simply call the "PCGS message boards.")
Comments
I think in general the PCGS is over-rated. I say this because of the postings I’ve read concerning the PCGS & the grading system as a whole. It’s been stated numerous times that the grading of a coin is typically in the “Eye of the Beholder”. Regardless of how it’s slabbed or graded by own dealer or individual doesn’t mean that the next dealer or individual will grade it in the same manner or with the same grading guidelines. This is due in part to the PCGS continually being kinda secretive about how they do things. I also believe they’ve brought most of this problem onto themselves because of their attitude towards the general public regarding their system (or lack of) for a coin grading standard that all can understand and follow.
Just my opinion…
Ey Yankee! New questions …. I got here logging out. I don’t see this on my home page dude! How come my page is different than yours?
Susan like you better!
Well my thoughts on this. Sight unseen buying may be good for moving coins, and giving a false sense of security to buyers. Keeping the market more liquid helps people sell their coins more quickly. It seems to me a PCGS stamp of approval carries a premium with the price tag at sale time.
I’ve noticed that in some arenas.
I’m still skeptical of the two top gradeing services, and haven’t done any business with them yet.
I don’t like the way they run their business, untill i find something better. That’s who will get my business. When it comes time for me to have any coins graded.
Okay … I give up! Where on the home page do i find questions & discussions???
Thank you!
Your friend
coiny
I have for years tried to warn collectors concerning these Coin Grading companies. The first RED warning flag came up when the companies had to get a monopoly on eBay to get rid of any competition when it came to coin grading. How can we be sure That PCGS & NGC are not dealing in counterfeit holders themselves? I find it quite interesting that eBay is not posting warnings in regards to these counterfeit slap coin sellers.
These coin grading companies have a very poor record when it comes to grading coins. I found this information in, “The official American Numismatic Association Grading Standards’ for US Coins” sold by ANA. Anyone who is serious about buying coins should be able to grade coins for themselves. Or deal with a grading company who has a no questions asked 100% money back guarantee plus return shipping policy. North West Coin Grading & North West Collectables & Coins is such a company. They primarily deal in Canadian Coins.
I myself like PCGS.They are more consistent than the others.NGC is ok but won’t cross to PCGS most times.ANACS is sometimes on and sometimes way overgrades.ICG,always overgraded.A lot of times I feel a coin is a better grade than it recieves from PCGS and it all depends on how they felt that day but if they grade say a peace dollar in mint state,IT IS.All in all they are the best grading co. and a high grade does and should sell for more than the same grade with someone else.I will agree they should let us see the fake slabs and with just a pic on e-bay or where ever it would be easy to be duped.Pay with paypal or a credit card.I sometimes wonder if they give it an extra tick for special persons.A big dif between a 66 and 67.Maybe take bribes?But hey,its the best thing going and at least their not selling a “SENATE SEAT!”Just my opinion.Thanks.