U. S. Mint Issues Statement Regarding Plain Edge Presidential Dollar Errors
Tuesday February 27, 2007
The U.S. Mint has issued a statement regarding the plain edge (missing edge lettering) George Washington Presidential Dollars. Unfortunately, the statement doesn't tell us much, but I will quote what has been given:"A Statement from the United States Mint
The United States Mint has struck more than 300 million George Washington Presidential $1 Coins. We have recently learned that an unspecified quantity of these coins inadvertently left the United States Mint at Philadelphia without edge-lettering on them. It is unknown how many of these coins without inscriptions on the edge have been placed into circulation.
The United States Mint understands the importance of the inscriptions “In God We Trust” and “E Pluribus Unum,” as well as the mint mark and year on U.S. coinage. We take this matter seriously. We also consider quality control a high priority. The agency is looking into the matter to determine a possible cause in the manufacturing process.
Production of the Presidential $1 Coin, with its unique edge-lettering, is a new, complex, high volume manufacturing system, and the United States Mint is determined to make technical adjustments to perfect the process. As we adjust this new process, we intend to eliminate any such defects.
Consistent with the agency’s practice in such situations, the United States Mint has informed the Office of Inspector General of the U.S. Department of the Treasury about this matter."
The statement sounds almost defensive, as if people are criticizing the Mint because it failed to put certain mottos and things on the coins (and maybe some people are, but I haven't heard about it if they have.) The statement also fails to acknowledge the small number of plain edge coins found from the Denver Mint in the Chicago area, which have been confirmed, and a few scattered Denver reports that are still unconfirmed as far as I know.
One thing that most coin collectors don't realize is the Mint's perspective on these things. Like all people who do a job or produce a product, they take pride in what they do, and want to produce a high-quality product that is as perfect as possible. When these large scale error events happen, while collectors are clamoring for an explanation, people at the Mint are embarrassed about these errors. While collectors may relish a juicy new unexpected variety, the Mint may feel humiliated that this happened, and I believe that is why we see statements like this.
I have a theory about how at least some of the plain edge errors happened. I think that a mis-alignment of the edge lettering device caused the coins to slowly "pull away" from the die, eventually not even touching them at all. Whether the problem is caused by vibration during the lettering process (where the coins roll through a groove-like "die" that impresses the edge inscriptions,) or whether human error, such as the machine operators failing to attend to the machine properly, the end result, in my thinking, is that the coins got further and further from the die, eventually leaving a batch of them with a very faint and/or no inscription.
This point about the very faint inscription is an important one. Most Americans don't examine their coins with high-power magnification, and so what appears, to their untrained naked eye as a plain edge, is turning out in some cases to be a very faint inscription. I have seen photos, and heard verbal reports from people who have these coins, that there are many specimens where the naked eye sees a plain edge, but the 10 power magnifier or the enlarged digital photo image shows a faint inscription. Ebay buyers beware!
I am currently working to compile a comprehensive report about all of the reported errors so far, including photos from folks who have been extremely generous in taking the time to make images showing their interesting finds, and I hope to have this information posted within a couple of days. In the mean time, if you find a George Washington Dollar error, please report it in the Comment section below, or email me at coins.guide@about.com.
Coin discovery & photo by Shawn Bell of bigbuckbell auctions.
Comments
I too was caught up in then frenzy thincking that maybe a few thousand made it out like the 1999 w error and i bought one at $185 a steal I thought from the poor guy who paid over $600+ for the first one. Now i have seen invidual sellers on e-bay has personally soold over 500+ coins and they keep pumping them out 20+ a day !!! this one seller has been selling his for as low as $50 a coin. My worry is “just how many are out there?” I mean just between 2 sellers that I have watched they have sold close to 1000 coins and thats just 2 sellers
I’m really worried that a lot more of these coins are out there than first thought and now with the chicago/denver “D” mint who knows how many are out there. Oh well I have spent $185 on silly things before and I’m sure this won’t be the last
Good luck to all the collectors and cograts to all the “lottery” winners as they keep pumping out those +5,000% returns on there money (sure beats the stock market especially today !!)
I just wonder, too, how many are out there, for real? I tend to doubt that there are as many as I’m seeing on eBay, and besides, how hard would it be for someone with a steady hand and the right equipments to simply grind off the edge lettering? Not too tough, and then the edge could be polished, and the buyer would be none the wiser. However, any reputable coin dealer would be able to tell, probably. But then, maybe not, which will lower the value of the genuine error coins. And that’s a shame.
Paula,
Thank you for your insighful comment. After looking at more of these coins than I care to admit (including edges under good magnification) I believe that most variety and error coin experts will be able to detect an alteration. (1) The edge characteristics would change if the coin edge was filed off, and (2) The coin would weigh a few grains less because of the missing metal.
Susan
I would estimate that, based on how many dateless error coins are being sold on EBAY right now (1000+), that there are probably tens of thousands of these and perhaps as many as 100,000, since many coins are very likely still in rolls, and probably some smaller # have been spent and put into circulation. Still, when you consider 300 million or more will be minted, even if there are 1 million dateless errors (which I think is too high an estimate), it still will be uncommon. Based on this, I think even $50 is too high to pay for this error coin. I appreciate what Susan said about some of the dateless being truly dateless, while others could be faint lettering that needs magnification. Several EBAY sellers I’ve contacted will not say which type they have, so a lot of people may be getting ripped off.
LIES! LIES! and more LIES! Today is 28 Feb 07. A quick search of ebay has demonstrated a total of 147 coins with errors have been auctioned. Not all had any bids. Please enlighten us with the names of the 50 a day seller and the one who sold over 1000 coins!
My search shows 17 smooth edge coins sold, all above $100. Frickin wierdos!
This is the sellers e-bay name
Items for Sale by rah7477( 122Feedback score is 100 to 499
Just go to his closed auction page as he now has 5 pages with over 216 closed auctions with some auctions selling 20 coins at a time
Here are just a few of his last few auctions that closed todayNEW GEORGE WASHINGTON GOLD DOLLAR WITH MINT ERROR
* View similar active items
* Sell one like this
Buy It Now $750.00
Free Feb-28 09:00
Listing has pictures
NEW GEORGE WASHINGTON GOLD DOLLAR WITH MINT ERROR
* View similar active items
* Sell one like this
Buy It Now $80.00
Free Feb-28 08:46
Listing has pictures
NEW GEORGE WASHINGTON GOLD DOLLAR WITH MINT ERROR
* View similar active items
* Sell one like this
Buy It Now $80.00
Free Feb-28 08:45
Listing has pictures
NEW GEORGE WASHINGTON GOLD DOLLAR WITH MINT ERROR
* View similar active items
* Sell one like this
Buy It Now $80.00
Free Feb-28 07:47
Listing has pictures
NEW GEORGE WASHINGTON GOLD DOLLAR WIT
This acution alone he sold 10 coins
look under seller ( rah7477 )
NEW GEORGE WASHINGTON GOLD DOLLAR WITH MINT ERROR
Item number: 160090653192
Email to a friend
Bidding has ended for this item
Sell an item like this or buy a similar item below.
View larger picture
Sold for: US $750.00
Auction ended early with Buy It Now.
Make no payments for 3 months
Here is his newest auction for 20 coins
just do a search of his closed auctions and see that i’m not lying and you can see for your self he has sold close to 1000 coins himself !!!
NEW GEORGE WASHINGTON GOLD DOLLAR WITH MINT ERROR
Item number: 160090827138
You are signed in Watch this item in My eBay | Email to a friend
View larger picture
Starting bid: US $1,100.00
Buy It Now price: US $1,260.00
Expand your search to washington error and you will see over 1300 closed auctions granted not all are rim errors but just scan through and see yourself that 1000’s of these coins have already been sold here on e-bay
Here is one of his earlier auctions were he sold 10 coins for $500
LOTof 10 GEORGE WASHINGTON GOLD DOLLAR WITH MINT ERROR
Item number: 160089963560
Email to a friend
Bidding has ended for this item
Sell an item like this or buy a similar item below.
View larger picture
Sold for: US $500.00
Auction ended early with Buy It Now.
Make no payments for 3 months Apply
Reading all this activity on the smooth edged Washington Dollars…now my twist to it all. Not knowing the physical machine process that the Mint is using for this process, I can only try to put a logical approach to what is happening and why.
I assume there are many presses feeding many inscription machines. Each inscription machine imprints the edge letting and those coins it is fed. Now there could be a few inscription machines that deposit their finished product into the same bin or hopper for wrapping. These wrapped coins are then boxed for shipment.
So therefore, if 1 inscription machine was not operating properly and there are 4 inscription machines feeding into same hopper, then statisticly 25% of the coins will be error/roll.
I have to believe there are many, many inscription machines and many hoppers being used to roll & box coins for shipments. I also believe all boxes of coins from same hopper are palletized and shipped to same central distribution center (ie Jacksonville).
To me, this explains why rolls are not 100% non-inscribed and also why only showing up in the frequency and location they are.
I am sure the Mint has QC records of exactly which inscription machine was at fault, approx. how long it was producing faulty product and the estimated quantity that could have been released. Will we ever know the high and low numbers….probably not.
With all this hype, I have to believe rolls have been cleaned out of the banks in the suspect areas. Be interesting to know if “new” discoveries are still being found today and if J’ville Fed is still shipping and what are the lot numbers on the cases that have the bad product.
Sure their appears to be a lot on ebay now, but how many different sellers who got their product from differnt banks are actually selling? Did a few stumble into the bad lot of product and are now capitalizing? Most appear to be non-collectors and I only saw 1 coin store on ebay from Jacksonville saying they had less that 50 and that was it. I have to believe they are very aware of the Wisc. frenzy and once found a few of these, went and bought all they could get his hands on and quickly. Has anyone surveyed the coin dealers in the J’ville area as to frequency or details?
With the quick spreading of the word on these and the ease of identification, I think that is why it appears to be a huge number of these out there. As in any product, supply and demand will dictate price. Monitor the sellers who seem to be listing huge amounts and see if they start to dry up. When you start to see the 1 or 2 coin sellers from other than Florida area states start to list and the Florida sellers decline, then you know the resellers have entered the market to resupply the demand. Once this happens then a better idea of market pricing will establish itself. Looks like many have bought into this in the $100-$200 range. Have to believe that if the reseller market kicks in, the price will be higher as they are not in business to lose money. I have seen a lot of high feedback winning bids on ebay on this stuff and they are not still in business from losing money.
Sorry Susan for the length of this post, but got into covering many more issues than I intended on addressing.
Steve,
Thank you for your very insightful comments regarding these plain edge coins. You made some excellent points!!!
I do want to set the record straight on one detail: the coins that go to the Fed for distribution into circulation leave the Mint in unrolled form. From there, they are taken to a private contractor, in this case Coinwrap, Inc., who rolls them up, puts them in boxes of 1,000, and those boxes into cases, (and I guess the cases onto pallets) which are then transferred to the Fed, for distribution to the banks.
To answer your assumption about whether the banks in Florida have been cleaned out yet, the answer is “nope.” I am still getting reports of coins having been found today in Florida.
What bugs me a lot is the fact that the mainstream media haven’t picked up this story yet. When the 1995 doubled die penny was found, it became a big deal nationwide (when it made the cover of USA Today,) with millions of people checking or hoarding their 1995 pennies “just in case.” This plain edge error is vastly more significant, and on a brand new coin type, too! Where are FOX News, CNN, the Associated Press (which would get it in newspapers nationwide) and other major news outlets? I know they are aware of the error, because I have been pounding the pavement contacting these guys since last week. I think the problem is that these coins have failed to capture the imagination of most Americans, partly because they look like a token, rather than a coin to many people, and because the portrait of this much beloved Founding Father of our nation, George Washington, is considered to be very unflattering by most folks.
Of course, we all know that the dollar coins will never really circulate widely anyhow until the government eliminates the paper $1 bill.
I would say regardless of the number which no doubt might be around 1000 in number. The error is remarkable and extremely rare, it makes die breaks, second leaves small in comparison! There is probably not a coin from years past to have the missing E Pluris Unum, Date and mint mark, all in the same coin! To me it is as stated big any 1955 DD and better!
I just opened a roll of GW$ and found 2 with extremely faint edge lettering. To the naked eye they look like they have no lettering, but with a magnified you can see extremely faint markings. I may list them on eBay on Sunday, but may or may not not be able to get a great photo.
What about the upside down coins. I have not heard anyone talk about these which seem to be just as large of an error if not larger. If the “blank” coins acutally have a faint lettering. Wouldn’t one with distinct misprint, be more desirable. I am refering to the “In God we Trust…” moto being upside down when you are looking down from George Washingtons head.
It seems to me that thiese errors may be far more common than one might think. As Steve pointed out, one malfunctioning press could churn out thousands of these coins in a very short time, and mix them with lettered coins.
I recently purchased a couple of rolls from a bank in upstate New York and found one coin with some missing edge lettering. While the date is fully inscribed,(2007 P), E Pluribus Unum reads “E __uribus Unu_”, and In God We Trust reads “In God __ _____”. This coin appears to have been struck from a defective planchet, or perhaps resulted from a die break, as there is some roughness along the rim. These were rolled by N.F. String & Son in Harrisburg, PA.
It looks to me as though the mint simply did not work all the bugs out of the process prior to going into full production.
In any event, things like these make for an interesting, and sometimes lucrative hobby.
They are still selling the Washington Dollar on eBay with the upside down lettering and saying it is a mint error.IT IS NOT A MINT ERROR.
I wrote the following to Susan directly:
Hello Susan
I appreciated all of the information on the major and minor errors on the new Presidential George Washington Dollar….
I am happy to report a very salient error from the Philadelphia mint….
I bought a bag of “D” mint dollars from the mint, as well as a bag of “P” mint dollars from the mint…
I found 25 errors on the “P” mint dollars that were not cited on your website…
In the word “America” on the reverse side of the coin, I have a very very salient fill mark directly over the “R” in the word “America”….it is a fill, and the fill is so large, it looks like a perfect accent mark over the letter, but not slanted like an accent mark….it is perfectly placed between the letter and the rim of the coin…
I have started to check the “D” mint dollars…went through a few rolls, and so far have not detected this same error as in the “P” mint mark….I have several more coins left in the bag to check however…
Please ask others if they have also seen this error, and I would also be interested in the value of the error coin(s)…
I would really appreciate a response to this report, and am anxious for your reply….
Warm Regards…
J.G. Petelle
Sacramento, California
J.G.,
Thank you for your amazing error report! Amazing, not so much for the error you describe, which is a minor die break, often mis-identified as a small “cud,” and which has been sold on eBay as “Capped A” and “Capped R” errors because it looks similar to the “capped D” Morgan Dollar “VAM” variety.
What is amazing about your report is that people are actually finding “naked eye viewable” errors in the bags of dollars being sold by U.S. Mint itself! One would have thought that perhaps the Mint would take a little more care to make real sure that no errors get sold directly by their own marketing department, after the terrible embarrassment of the plain edge “Godless” dollars that got out in large numbers, but there is hope for those who cannot find unsearched Presidential Dollars at their bank: maybe you’ll get lucky in the Mint bags, like J.G. did!
I recommend buying Denver bags if you go this route, because the Denver plain edge coins are far more widely dispersed than the Philly plain edge dollars were, although as J.G. points out, there are plenty of other errors to find, also.
I would be very interested to hear from others who found errors in the Mint-sold bags and rolls of Presidential Dollars! Please email photos, too, if possible, to coins.guide@about.com.
Susan Headley
About.com Guide to Coins
Susan
Thank you for your response, and you are so sweet in replying to me personally…
You see, I am not what you would call a coin collector who has stayed with the hobby continuously…..I am 56 years old, and started to collect pennies when I was around 8 years old, but the hobby fell by the wayside through the intervening years…
If I were to purchase another bag from the mint, it would be from the “P” mint because of a better chance to get an error dollar coin…
AND yes! You don’t need to use a magnifying glass to see what you call a “Capped R” error (Thank you for teaching me this term)
I have been through the “D” mint bag….about half way through, and have found about 7 coins with errors, BUT none with the “Capped R” error as in the “P” mint…
The other observation I have made about the incused edge is:
There is no mistake that “P” mint dollars incused edge is extrememly sloppy work, wherein, the “D” mint dollars are sharper and crisper….
Each bad of dollars from the mint has 250 coins, so this would be a reference as to how many coins I am examining….
Actually, the dollar coin is beautiful, but the incused edge really turns me off, and I see no beauty in it at all, which is really ashame…
If I come across any other salient errors that have not been mentioned, I will send the report to you…
I wish I had a camera to take a picture of the “Capped R” error, because I would surely like to share a photo with you and others….I just don’t have a camera that will make such a photo….
These dollar coins with the errors really caught my attention, and has made me a collector again….I am on the US Mints list for notification, and I fully intend to purchase a bag of each mint when they come out because I believe each and every coin issued will have many salient errors to be discovered….
Thanks so much for your warm reply….
JG Petelle
Sacramento, California
J.G.,
You can try to scan your coins. Some scanners do a wonderful job, but if the coin comes out black, you need to change the color output to “True Color.” Most scanners can even enlarge the coin quite a bit, also. But don’t waste too much time if the scanner doesn’t seem to be getting it, because some scanners can’t do coins at all! It has something to do with whether the light source is a laser or a regular high-intensity light, I think.
Susan
Hello Susan
Okay….I will try my best to scan these “Capped R” error GW$ coins…
So…out of a bag of 250 coins from the mint, 10% showed up with the “Capped R” from the “P” mint, and you are right, they are so salient that you don’t need to use any magnification at all…
Again, the “P” mint has done some really sloppy work in my opinion, but great for us! The “D” mint coins are pressed much better and seem to be clearer and crisper on each side of the coin, and especially on the incused edge…
I still have many more coins to check, and thanks for all your help here on the forum…
Warmest Regards,
JG Petelle
Sacramento, California
im from Wisc. anyone know where i should go to find some error dollaz?
WackoBro69,
Plain edge dollars, from the Denver Mint, have been reported in extreme southern Wisconsin. Denver Mint plain edges are turning up all over the place. They were not localized like the Philadelphia ones were, which were mostly found in Florida.
However, there are LOTS of valuable error types being found in Presidential Dollars! I recommend just buying rolls and searching through them. After all, it’s essentally free…you search the coins and then trade them in for more!
Let me know what you find!
Susan Headley
About.com Guide to Coins
thanks! i live in racine (about 30 miles south of milwaukee) if i find any, ill let you know!
can you hear me, Major Tom?
I got upset over this for nothing, having received an e-mail saying the mint was leaving off the words “IN GOD WE TRUST” an all it was is an “error coin” People should stop alarming people without knowing all the facts, while i believe we should be aware that some would like to take away the words “IN GOD WE TRUST” it would be a disgrace to our forefathers and the founders of this nation!